WoW (WordPress on Windows)

It’s not THAT horrible.

And actually you can work around the 30 Permalink thing (which only matters if you want subFOLDERS and not subDOMAINS).

In your case, though, I’d be making subdomains since that way you won’t get /blog/ in your URLs, and if that’s the case, just go for broke from where you are.

I’m sure it isn’t Mika. But what I’d really like is someone as savvy as yourself to co-author a how-to guide on just such projects with me. It shouldn’t take a developer, when there is a Win-savvy server admin (that would be almost me), and someone who knows their way around the .INI files where WordPress is concerned.

But each nuance has it’s ups and downs, and even though I possess two WordPress manuals (“24 Hour Trainer” and “WordPress Bible”), neither of them spell out clearly the steps required to do X or Y, nor did I know when installing WinServer/WordPress for the first time that if you go ahead and do the Multi-site thing “now” it will be better planned for later. Pfft. I’m new to WordPress, but have been building servers since NT 4.0 was “new,” and BackOffice Small Business Server was the vehicle in around 1999.

Sub domains need individual registration. Subdirectories do not. >30 days makes subdirectories “taboo.” But for our needs, subdirectories make the most sense. So I guess to do that I need a second install of WordPress. Fine. How do I do it WITHOUT damaging one fully functional and necessary WordPress site, when there is a Windows WPI interface wanting to do the installation? I think it will require working specifics from the command line — but there’s no manual saying: do this, then this, then this, and you need the second instance of MySQL (or whatever) in a separate location, mapped here to avoid the existing database, yada yada, geek speak.

Where’s the playbook for this game? If there is none, let’s tag team it by phone and write one. I have 8 books to my credit already. One more won’t slow me down more than a little.

??
Aaron

Hah. I wrote a book– two books actually, on Multisite. (Check https://store.halfelf.org/ for ’em).

I don’t know that there’s enough to make a ‘book’ out of just this situation, but I know that between the two books I cover pretty much everything you’re talking about here.

Sub domains need individual registration. Subdirectories do not.

Is that YOUR rule? That ain’t the Multisite Rule. Multisite: All sites share the base group of users from the network.

You may have to sign back in between subdomains or mapped domains, but that’s not a factor of WordPress so much as one of browser security, which isn’t avoidable.

But for our needs, subdirectories make the most sense.

Considering no matter WHAT you do with subdirectories, you’re going to have the /blog/ slug put in (which really just means you’ll need an htaccess or web.config redirect for the old URLs), you still can do this in situ. Activate multisite, redirect the URLs, and start making your subsites.

The ONLY thing that activating Multisite impacts for your current visitors is that URL ??

Ok, well one thing I read was that the subDOMAIN required registration of those domains. You say this isn’t so? Like I said, I’m new to this aspect of web sites, so I am relying on the WordPress “experts,” one of which reported that to be a difference between the Directory/Domain question.

As for your books, do they cover the Windows aspect? I have no problem downloading a PDF if it will solve the problem, or at least steer me in the right direction. (Specifics are important, obviously.) I’m also willing to pay for that insight, or for the book. You wrote them … so I ask, which book specifies how to set up multisite properly for this situation?

I’m fairly certain that you need more information to know exactly what’s planned here (yes, there actually is a 5 year technology plan in place). .COM, .INFO and .ORG sites are involved, each having a piece in the plan (and a static IP address). There is a massive FTP site already running as well, and I have an idea for a specific plug-in that no one seems to have yet, but for academia, it would be a major help. If you care to have a few minute consult, you can e-mail me directly [ redacted, support is offered via the forums and not email ], but I don’t want to post a phone number in this venue. Sure you understand that logic. ??

~punt~ you have the ball.
Aaron

Ok, well one thing I read was that the subDOMAIN required registration of those domains.

I … don’t know what you’re asking. Subdomains means your server has to be set up for subdomains. There’s sod all about account registration being a ‘per subdomain’ situation.

which book specifies how to set up multisite properly for this situation?

101 – That is a getting started with Multisite. They’re not Windows Specific, but up until now, you’ve not actually said anything that would make me go “Ewww, on Windows that will suck.” I mean, you’ll have to extrapolate .htaccess to web.config (or whatever you’re using), but WP actually does that for you now-a-days, so it should be alright.

I’m sure you have a big ol’ plan and that’s great! Good plans are good! But it sounds like you’re at the begining, and you’re not that well versed in Multisite YET. So yeah I’d grab the 101 book. I’d also read this: https://halfelf.org/2011/dont-use-wordpress-multisite/ (it’s a little tongue in cheek of a title, but you’ll get the idea) to help you guide your decisions BEFORE you get in too deep.

BTW, I am not for hire, I am not a consultant, and if you need to hire someone then you need to go to jobs.wordpress.net. What you get HERE is free advice from volunteers ??

Here are two additional pieces of info that might clarify more about why the decision to use subDOMAINS/Sub/Directories is a bit more interesting. We own:
name.com
name.org
name.info

The “Name.info” site is our currently functional WordPress site. I don’t want anything (sub domains or sub directories) connected to that site.

The “Name.org” site is currently hosted on another site, and running Moodle for our courses/curricula. However, that site will be moved from hosted to internal, and installed on this same server that now hosts the .INFO site.

We would like to have multi-site functional on the “Name.com” URL.

With the .INFO site being WP stand-alone, along with a solid FTP site, would it not make more sense to have a second installation, where it could then handle these subsites? The fact is, our previous experiences with anything hosted have included intolerable TOS situations and things that have led us to wanting OUT of all such idiocy. Now, with 5 static IP’s, the plan is to allocate one of them to .INFO, another to .ORG, and another to .COM (where we want a collection of WP subsites).

So I am really needing a bit more info that I am finding in the 101 book thus far, plus the fact that again, your writings are speaking Apache, not Win 2008r2 with IIS and that somewhat irritating Windows Platform Installer (WPI) that tries to make all decisions for you. In this case, that seems to me a fair open door to having an installation overwrite what is already in place, and crash a site we’ve been building now for months.

The second piece of necessary info is that this server is NOT out there in cloudville. There is no “hosting provider” to call for a “flip this switch” situation. I bought and built this Dell server. It sits here about 10 feet from me. If it is going to be done, it will be by me and whatever “support” WordPress can help with.

WordPress was recommended because it can do what our specs said we need (other than the Moodle situation for the actual curricula). We want WordPress to give us subsites for our Intranet, Journalism programs, and even (imagine this one) blogs.

But those ancillary WP sites have to be on the .COM url, and not part of what we have as .INFO. How to get to there, from here, with least resistance?

If you don’t think there is “enough material” in this situation to warrant a book of its own, I beg to differ. At only 71 pages, your 101 level document is a “white paper” by just about any tech standards. WinServer’s MS Press title weighs in at over 1400 pages, and 90% of IIS 7 isn’t even touched. That has a few manuals of its own, and enough “undocumented” material for about 4 more. What we need here is a White Paper on multi-URL name hosting with WordPress multi-site in a hybrid environment, running on Windows Server 2008r2. And this is particularly necessary for those of us who want to “seed the cloud” and bring it down to earth as rain. ??

name.com
name.org
name.info

[…]

But those ancillary WP sites have to be on the .COM url, and not part of what we have as .INFO. How to get to there, from here, with least resistance?

Domain mapping. Which is explained in the 101 book.

But you can’t do it with every domain having it’s own IP on Multisite. That’s just technically impossible at this time.

.COM is not being used YET.

I’m not sure what you can’t do with every domain. Don’t speak in pronouns. To be clear:

.INFO is running the standard install/implementation of WordPress. That site is not to be disturbed. It will have its own IP.

.COM will be (if we can ever get there) a multi-site implementation, with subsites. I care not if it is sub domain or sub directory. But that is the URL that I want pointed to the multi-site installation. It will have its own IP as well.

Is this possible, or not, on windows server 2008r2?

How does it get implemented — step by step? That’s what I need to know. From step 1 through step 6824, if that’s how many it takes.
??
Aaron

If they’re separate sites, why the heck are you bringing them up?

Leave .INFO alone. Ignore it. Forget about it. We’re not talking about info.

.COM you want? So install it. I don’t really see what you’re not understanding about “Install WordPress for example.com and activate Multisite.”

If we go ALL the way back to the beginning the question was about developing Multisite in a different location and moving it. You can do that. It’s not horrible, but you have to actually get off your duff and install Multisite ?? Decide if you want subdomains or subfolders. This is up to you how you want to do it.

I, personally, would be doing everything locally. If I couldn’t do that, and I only have the INFO server to use, I would make a subdomain (SEPARATE) from multisite on the server and install there. I would use subfolders, if the blog slug doesn’t bother me, and build out the site as I want.

Then when I’m done, I’d read this – https://codex.www.ads-software.com/Moving_WordPress#Moving_WordPress_Multisite – and move Multisite.

Then I’d have a beer and send my bill.

I think you are bouncing between twenty people and confusing the concept here. All these sites are going to sit on the SAME physical server machine. .INFO is already running. There is nothing to “move.” So there is WP, PhP, MySql, etc. systems functioning, and driving the .INFO site. I want a separate installation ON THE SAME MACHINE, but WP multi-site to drive the .COM collection of sub-sites. If it needs its own DB, etc. to function, none of those things can interlope to the point of messing up .INFO. If it needs installed from the command line to point to a folder on a D drive (instead of “root” — that too.) There’s a lot of interaction between programs (obviously), so I need to know the particulars of installing WP again, but on the same server, and what to install with it that will be separated from what already exists.

Are we on the same page yet?

The next problem is that I would have to send the bill to myself. The server sits here, and I’m working of, by, and on behalf of, myself. This is not an accounting question. It’s a question of software interaction…ROFL.

Aaron

All these sites are going to sit on the SAME physical server machine. .INFO is already running.

Okay. That’s nice. I have 20 domains on one physical server…. That’s sod all with WordPress. That’s vhosts and server config.

I want a separate installation ON THE SAME MACHINE, but WP multi-site to drive the .COM collection of sub-sites.

I think I see why you’re confused. This is not a WORDPRESS question. This is a HOSTING question. No, I’m serious. You’re asking “How do I install two domains on one server.” Do you already know how to do THAT? If not, WordPress should not even be on your radar.

To loop ALL The way back:

What we want to do, since it has been up several months (i.e. beyond the 30 day permalink nuance), is to load a NEW install totally separated (on the same machine, however) from what’s functional. In this instance, we need to have the Multi-site functionality.

The answer is this: Okay, set up a separate virtual domain on your server and install WordPress there. There’s no “30 day permalink nuance” in this case because (get this) you haven’t installed WordPress yet.

Mika is correct.

If your new multisite installation is completely separated from everything else? All the other sites have absolutely no bearing on it.

Make a new folder on your server. Dump the WP files in it. Set up a new db for it. Run the installer.

Then turn on multisite.

You’re way overthinking it.

https://codex.www.ads-software.com/Installing_WordPress#Easy_5_Minute_WordPress_Installation_on_Windows

https://codex.www.ads-software.com/Create_A_Network

Oh, having 20 years of experience with this wackiness, I would say “overthinking” is an acquired skill. And indeed, by asking it a different way, I not only got another person involved, but achieved another answer. You (Andrea) said “set up a new db for it.” I thought so, but through all this post, Mika didn’t infer such. But my thinking seems to have been correct.

So then, one more element remains. If WordPress requires a db (MySql in the first case), and likewise requires PhP, do we also need another install of that as well? One of these days I might have all the pieces needed to actually “get off my duff” (pfft.) and make something happen.

On another note, and just for a bit of fun, Mika suggested the key to it all at the server level is something of a “hosting question.” Guess what? ROFL. Wayyyy back near the top, and perhaps spiced through it on occasion, you will see that I seek to “seed the cloud” and etc. That is something allegorical relating to the fact that, after 20 years of taking it on the chin from “hosting” companies, we are internalizing everything. Yep — everything. So, for clarity, there is no “host” to call on here to “flip a switch” etc.

When I parsed the “Inside Out” (MS Press) title on Server 2008r2 for the term “domain mapping,” (used in a previous thread here) guess what? Not a hint of it. There are “domain trees” and about 4 pages of the index devoted to all sorts of things with “domain” as a keyword. But Microsoft must call “domain mapping” something else. I do recognize we are referring to the “top level domain name” in our case here, and all sorts of other aspects of getting IIS 7x to seek it out on an incoming request for something…

Yes, I will confess, it has been a while since I was regularly building servers. And being our own host is entirely new ground here. The common link to y’all is that it is necessary for me to understand the way Windows Server works with WordPress as an application in the pool, so to speak. But not just WordPress — there are a collection of interdependencies involved with these other “requirements” (SQL, PhP, etc.).

Ask me a question about setting up a mapped drive for a VPN, or adding authenticated users in assorted groups, and getting their permissions in line, and I can answer them. Running multiple installs of WordPress atop that mess is why I am here.

FYI, we now have a static IP block in the game, and the server on that pipeline. So I’m feeling a bit more relaxed. Hopefully we’ll have a good, clean, new install of WordPress to speak of shortly, and we can boast of how the free support at www.ads-software.com beat the daylights out of Microsoft’s. [They wanted $159 for an “incident support call” when there was no “incident.” I just had a quick question about installing their SharePoint program to PREVENT any incidents…ROFL. Needless to say, we scratched SharePoint entirely, and came to WordPress.]

So that’s how we ended up on your radar. ??

By the way, thank you (both) for your patience with me. I know I’m in neck-deep here. My world has been a series of learning experiences into the realm of server-tech, after being somewhat out of the loop just long enough for Microsoft to slap new names on some retread technology, and confuse the be-geezus out of me. LOL.

We having fun yet?
Aaron

Ask me a question about setting up a mapped drive for a VPN, or adding authenticated users in assorted groups, and getting their permissions in line, and I can answer them. Running multiple installs of WordPress atop that mess is why I am here.

You’re mixing apples and oranges here, though. Mapped drives for VPNs and users and groups aren’t at all the same as virtual domains and IIS and whatever shenanigans Windows server is up to these days.

Anyway. You’re putting the cart before the horse here as well. Step one is to get the DOMAIN working and showing PHP etc, which is not something we can help you with. Not because we don’t want to (though really we don’t do individual server stuff since servers are special snowflakes) but because the majority of us use the more well documented Linux servers. Debian stack, CentOS, even Ubuntu, and I know where to go. Windows? I have to be vague because in the broadest terms, that’s all I know!

(I stopped using Windows 18 months ago, and I’m happily forgetting everything about it.)

The common link to y’all is that it is necessary for me to understand the way Windows Server works with WordPress as an application in the pool, so to speak.

I get why you think that, but WordPress is a pure web application. It needs your server to have SQL and PHP and that’s pretty much it.

https://www.microsoft.com/web/wordpress

That’s a horse’s mouth perspective on the matter and would be how I did it the one time I bothered.

I do appreciate your “above and beyond the call” with me here. And one of the links in that string (https://www.microsoft.com/web/wordpress) deals with the aforementioned WPI (Web Platform Installer) that is my main concern. That was the windows widget we used to set up WordPress the FIRST time. And yep, it works great.

I am shy on the side of caution when contemplating using it for a SECOND installation of WordPress on the same machine, because Windows is often too smart for its own britches. It will see that MySql is already present, that PhP is already present, and think they are not necessary. Maybe they are, and maybe they are not. If they are needed in a secondary location (to provide the required separation between domains), then you probably know better than anyone what is coming if WordPress gets installed without them. I’d have to install them secondarily from the command line anyway, open all sorts of .INI and other files and fill in code gaps and linkages.

Then again, if it does install them, and because there could be a newer version of something than what’s already on the server, it might just overwrite the code serving the existing site, and screw up both installations.

Hence, the buried questions previously about “command line install” of each and every piece. As wonderful as SOME of this automation is, there are times when a human is doing something that a machine isn’t comprehending. (There are times when humans do things that other humans don’t comprehend …LOL.) That WPI has its merits. But this is a bit outside the norm, and let’s face it — Windows has a habit of thinking IT (rather than the human) is in charge.

I doubt there is any little “check box” that will pop up and ask me: “Oh, do you really want a second installation of WordPress on this machine?” and after checking “yes” … would it then have another saying “Check here if you want a fully separated installation on this server” … whereby it would go about being the brains and doing exactly what we need. ROFL.

[Someone is going to eventually write that code now. Can I get a royalty for the suggestion? ROFL]

Like many here, I am trying to wean away from many things Microsoft. That said, their server is about as tough as it gets where security is concerned, and that’s the main reason I wanted 2008r2 on this machine. Aside from that, I prefer Corel Office over the MS Office suite, won’t touch Exchange for our e-mail (even though that’s the one I have deployed in the past, and know it well), etc.

Is there a location where I can download EACH needful item for this project, singularly? Then I can do a command-line installation one at a time (and in proper sequence), and have it 100% separated from the existing DB, etc.

Perhaps I should have worded that question that clearly in the previous dialog somewhere, but I know I have already asked it in several forms. I also need to know what the sequence is for command-line installation. ( [x] first, then [y] , etc. )

I’d rather spend another two weeks here finding all the pieces, and sorting it out in my mind BEFORE doing something that takes another month of server rebuilding when it gets fouled up and destroys the other site.

Thank you again for your patience Mika, et al.

Aaron