CSS & PHP themes SUCK

When I started with WordPress, not even a year ago, I had never heard of php and css. I downloaded templates (themes) that I thought were close to what I wanted and then designed around them. I’ve never heard of Adobe Golive, but in my experience, I bet any Adobe product is making it WAY more complicated than it should be.

I would find a theme that I kind of like, and using FireFox and the “edit css” extension, I would play around.

If you’ve already gotten this far, it won’t hurt to try.

#1 Solution: Learn how to code CSS by completing a few courses at https://www.w3schools.com/. Also, GoLive is not the only graphical CSS editor out there. Depending on your platform, there are plenty of freeware, shareware, and commercial alternatives.

#2 Solution: https://codex.www.ads-software.com/Blog_Design_and_Layout

#3 Solution: Work on a local mirror of your blog. See:
https://girtby.net/offerings/wordpress-osx-local-mirror (Mac)
https://www.tamba2.org.uk/wordpress/xampp/ (PC)

#4 Solution: Don’t touch the index.php file in WordPress root. This why Themes were invented. You only have to edit your theme’s index.php file.

One by one.

#1 Problem : CSS is impossible if you don’t have Adobe Golive CS2 (even then its very annoying) Not at all. Download the trial version of Topstyle (https://bradsoft.com). Then when you find out how much easier it makes creating and editing stylesheets, you won’t be able to throw that $79 at them fast enough. Trust me.

#2 Problem : Word press doesn’t have any easily organized tutorials for beginners using COMPLETELY BLANK templates.

You don’t want a completely BLANK template. Just start with the barest one, which has been provided (Classic). There is no dearth of excellent tutorials out there on the topic of WordPress layout.

Start here:
https://www.thebombsite.com/The-Fix/122
to read about layout anomalies and how to fix them. Once you wrap your head around this, you will be fine.

Then, you can check out some more information here:
https://www.tamba2.org.uk/wordpress/

and here:
https://catsutorials.catsudon.org/?cat=2

That should get you going with WordPress. For more general CSS help, bookmark (and read) these links:

https://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/
https://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/css/
https://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp
https://www.e-lusion.com/design/menu/
https://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/index.htm
https://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

#3 Problem : Everytime you make a change you almost have to save, FTP, and go check your site to make sure your not messing up some PHP code or doing something that looks bad. Change what? A page of HTML? A stylesheet? With TopStyle, you can view realtime changes and you can set it up to preview in as many browsers as you can load on your computer.

#4 Problem : Word Press’ file directory setup is insane. 2 index.php files….You have to figure out which to edit.
Uh, category.php … category template.
single.php … individual archive template.
index.php … main template.
page.php … WP Page template.

You want it dummied down more?

Basically I was just looking to do DESIGN work, and this was a total waste of my time. I don’t know what to do next…

Perhaps an attitude adjustment and a big cup/glass of your favorite beverage?

Rome wasn’t built in a day and if you don’t possess the skill sets necessary to do design work yet, your first attempts aren’t going to look like they were done by the Balthaser.com crew. Me? I learn something new every day. A lot of it is trial and error, but more of it is just educating yourself about how all these things work together to create a site. How did I gain my knowledge? By picking apart the underpinnings of a site, examining the stylesheet, reading online about CSS and HTML, investing in a few books about CSS. PHP: That’s waay down the road. But that’s what the support forums are for. You do what you can, and when you get stuck, the kind folks here can usually help you out.

It’s not rocket science and it’s all easily assimilated by most people. You don’t need a degree in physics to understand it. You just need a starting point. The links above should help you with WordPress-specific matters. Googling for what you want is also good. It won’t drop from the sky onto your head, and you can’t sit like a baby bird in a nest waiting for a worm to be dropped into your mouth.

Good luck!

As an added note, WordPress’ list of available themes recently passed the 300 mark. If theme design really is as difficult as you’re making it sound, then I guess those 250+ theme designers were just willing to go the extra mile. Or, perhaps theme design isn’t as difficult as you’re making it sound. Just give it time, and read the Codex articles very carefully. A few good volunteers spent long hours preparing those for publication. If you feel that the articles need improvement, feel free to improve them, they are community-editable.

Some excellent replies. I’ve been using WordPress for about five weeks – my first experience of a CMS – and I think it’s superb. I love it. And it’s one of the best-supported and best-documented I’ve seen. My advice is to spend time reading up in the Codex – not just skim reading but reading carefully.

Not everyone can do this, I know, but having a test site set up on another domain is a very useful way to test changes before implementing them on the real site.

#1 Problem : CSS is impossible if you don’t have Adobe Golive CS2 (even then its very annoying)

I’ve found Notepad works pretty well, actually. And with WordPress, you can just use the Theme editor. My experience with WYSIWG editors since the earliest days of HTML (1994 or thereabouts) has been that they all suck The new ones using CSS may produce a better product than the old ones used to with tables, but I would still avoid the whole bunch. Especially for someone touting themselves as a designer, reliance on a GUI program to do the work for you seems a bit…lazy.

#2 Problem : Word press doesn’t have any easily organized tutorials for beginners using COMPLETELY BLANK templates.

Did you look at the Codex at all before writing this?

#3 Problem : Everytime you make a change you almost have to save, FTP, and go check your site to make sure your not messing up some PHP code or doing something that looks bad.

Well, actually you have to check any HTML page every time you make a change, in my experience. With WordPress, FTP doesn’t have to be involved – use the Theme Editor in the Administration Panel.

#4 Problem : Word Press’ file directory setup is insane. 2 index.php files….You have to figure out which to edit.

Two index.php files in two different directories. Nothing unusual about that at all. But regardless the current setup is a major leap forward over the old setup. And there isn’t much to figure out. You go to the Administration Panel to the Presentation Tab to Theme Editor and edit Main Template. You don’t even have to know that it’s called “index.php”, let alone figure out which one to edit. But your first clue might have been when the index.php in the main directory had nothing in it but basically “use themes” and “require the blog header”. Even a nonprogrammer like myself could follow that much to realize that all that file is intended to do is lay the groundwork for calling the theme files.

And having just read your blog, as a potential client my thought would be….if all this guy is going to do is use a drag-and-drop WYSIWG editor complaining all the while if he actually has to have some knowledge beyond how to move a mouse, why don’t I just have my secretary do it?

I’ve just read the blog too.
4 points here and 12 there = 16 pieces of junk.

Here, since you seemed curious are some of those things that “nobody knows wtf”:
CSS= Cascading Style Sheets
RSS=Really Simple Syndication
HTML= Hypertext Markup Language
and a couple of freebies that you didn’t actually complain about yet…
XML=eXtensible Markup Language
PHP=Personal home page which led to PHP Hypertext Processor
SQL=Structured Query Language

Tom – you missed one for him:

RTFM

??

Better yet:

CSS= Cascading Style Sheets
RSS=Really Simple Syndication
HTML= Hypertext Markup Language
and a couple of freebies that you didn’t actually complain about yet…
XML=eXtensible Markup Language
PHP=Personal home page which led to PHP Hypertext Processor
SQL=Structured Query Language

It certainly looks like at least someone “knows wtf” those stand for.

P.S. RTFM=Read the F***ing Manual

Just one more, and I’ll have to stop reading or I’ll probably get a nosebleed from the ire!

4. Most CSS designed sites look terrible, like they were done by someone with no design knowlege.

check out

https://csszengarden.com

Then come back here (with hat in hand) and say that again. To my face.

(Oh, and he probably thinks Flash intros are still “kewl”. Yawn.)

It’s true that the state of CSS support is primitive, it’d be nice if there was web based WSIWYG layouting, the usage and insertion of template tags is atrociously user-hostile etc. That, unfortunately, is the state of WordPress and its relatives. But you didn’t just come here to rant, because that’s what your blog is for, right? ?? You came here to seek advice. With a needlessly instigative post title.

So here’s my advice on #3: use the inbuilt template editor, or try to find a text editor that can open files via ftp, or see if your ftp client lets you open files in desktop apps and sync upon hitting save in them. Do reply if you have any more questions about getting up to speed with WP theme editing.

Ah, I feel so much better after looking at that.

#1 Problem : CSS is impossible if you don’t have Adobe Golive CS2 (even then its very annoying)

Bull biscuits. I certanly don’t have that and I do just fine with my CSS. In fact I even use FREE tools to do it all with.

#2 Problem : Word press doesn’t have any easily organized tutorials for beginners using COMPLETELY BLANK templates.

Then you haven’t done enough research. I’ve done at least two from scratch…. it’s not as hard as people make it out to be.

#3 Problem : Everytime you make a change you almost have to save, FTP, and go check your site to make sure your not messing up some PHP code or doing something that looks bad.

Bull Busuits part II. Run everything on a test site or on your local machine. Google XAMP or LAMP.

#4 Problem : Word Press’ file directory setup is insane. 2 index.php files….You have to figure out which to edit.

Umm, it seems fairly simple to me. If I want to modify the main page of Theme X, then I look in the Theme X folder…

Basically I was just looking to do DESIGN work, and this was a total waste of my time. I don’t know what to do next…

Since you didn’t ask for any help, I won’t give it. But it sounds like you need a little more than some CSS (which stands for Cascading Style Sheets) help.

Tg

I agree with all these replies; CSS is not only easy once you just go over it, you can design virtually anything with it. Furthermore, Adobe Go Live? To be honest, this might be more of the problem than a solution. Years ago, when someone told me this, I thought they were insane – but coding by hand is the ONLY way to go. I very occasionally bust out Dreamweaver because you can quickly make a good style sheet, but anything beyond that and you are just asking for frustration.
Secondly, completely blank templates are the only way I like to go; but I would suggest looking at some themes and seeing how they are using little pieces here and there. I suggest Eric Meyer’s list of CSS links to get you started.
Finally – Web Standards. Look it up. Sure, it means you can’t drag and drop a million flashy gadgets from some program, but take it from anyone who has ever worked in an environment where they had to make a Web page – not a site, but just a PAGE – that more than 2 browsers could accurately view (show of hands, version-4-browser coders!?!) – Web standards is the only way to go – which is why I chose WordPress after trying everything else and being immensley disappointed.
At least meet people halfway and put in some effort before you go knocking this system many people worked very hard on and which is, in my opinion, the best on the net. Otherwise, they are called Web designers – hire one.