Installing WordPress for free

“well known” is not good enough in my books. a link to their personal pages would simply give additional info. of what type of individuals these folks are and what merits their eligibility/qualification other than being “well known” in the forums. ??

but perhaps, it’s “good enough” for folks who are desperate for help. ??

Well, many of the folks in that list have their “main” site as part of their profile. Not all, to be sure, but many.

Nevermind that it’s not just about being “well known” – it’s about their reputations here… which you could easily see by clicking on the posts they’ve written in, and determine for yourself, as have the people who decided to choose those on the list.

Again, if they wanted their personal sites known to the world, they would put it in their forum profile anyway – a few extra clicks on your part isn’t going to kill ya… ??

In my city, I can’t get a job as a courier unless I get a ‘bond’. Why is that? Because I’m trusting a stranger, hired by a company I’ve contracted, to have posession of private documents. The same goes for a locksmith.

Although I believe everyone has the best of intentions here, that’s really beside the point. I, and especially novices, don’t know who any of these people are, or anything about them. Having other people we don’t know vouch for them also means nothing. And I’ve observed some of the people involved have spoken with impatience and disrespect in this forum. That kind of behaviour does not help the trust issue.

If you expect someone to give you access to their web hosting account, it’s perfectly reasonable they know exactly who you are before they let you in. To say they shouldn’t ask for this info is unreasonable. I’m not saying that information should be public. But I feel it should be available to the person asking for assistance.

One solution to this could be to acquire an SSL certificate, and have people access your request process through it. I don’t know if this has been discussed already as an option. The certificate companies verify the identity and location of the certificate owner, and it would be up to that person to take responsibility.

As I feel this would be an appropriate way to provide some assurances, I’m willing to donate to towards the cost of a geotrust certificate. I’ll put my money where my mouth is in otherwords. Should you institute something along these lines, I would be comfortable advocating the service where I deem appropriate.

I am not one of the people involved in this, so my viewpoint is, believe it or not, manstraw as unbiased as yours.

You state:

If you expect someone to give you access to their web hosting account, it’s perfectly reasonable they know exactly who you are before they let you in.

Is it not as equally reasonable to expect that if someone cannot find that information that they ask for it?

The list of names IS public, and I dont see a single name on that list where a link back to their web site is NOT provided here on this forum.

Honestly, folks, I really think you are turning molehills into mountains.

Its a damn service, one that NO-ONE is oblidged to do or accept, and one that you would think people would be appreciative of.

Ive installed phpBB forums, installed mods, hacks, scripts, you name it, giving less information about myself than anyone involved in this is willing to give.

And yes, I needed a passwd and a login.
Give it a damn rest already.

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I find it SO odd that the biggest “complainers” in this thread are people that wouldnt have a need for the service anyway.. whats up with that?

What do you really care? Perhaps your intentions are the ones that ought to come into question.

Me thinkest thou doth protest too much.

I really wish we could keep this discussion reasonable. Personal accusations and insults have no place in responsible discussion.

At the moment, I’m discussing one particular legitimate concern with such a service, and have even proposed what I think a reasonable solution might be. Although it’s done for free, it’s still a service, and providing a service has certain legal and moral responsibilities. Knowing someone’s blog address does not speak to the issue of identity that I’m raising.

I’m open to discussing the pros and cons of what I’m suggesting. I would really prefer not to debate on whether or not I should be appreciative or not, nor be labelled a complainer. I’m not complaining. I’m discussing. I have no need for this service, but I do need to make a decision on whether or not I can advocate it.

Please understand that I’ve seen things like this fail many times before. Accountability is a key issue. It’s an issue at the start, and moreso should a problem happen. What do you do if an ‘installer’ is accused of damaging data in a web account? There are many other potential issues that may arise. It’s the responsible thing to put some checks and balances in place. It helps to insure success, not hinder it.

I’d like to ask that people not take an emotional stance in this discussion. By all means, respond to my points. Feel free to disagree. But I respectful ask that you resist the temptation to acuse and insult. It doesn’t earn respect, and undermines your otherwise legimate points.

“I’m not complaining. I’m discussing. I have no need for this service, but I do need to make a decision on whether or not I can advocate it.”

As part of your search for information as to whether or not you can advocate it, have you taken the time to read the mailing list archives, where the entire project was discussed out in the open?

Have you seen, that there are 75 subscribers to that list, and only a dozen or so have given ANY input at all during the development of this idea?

Have you noticed, at all, that this is completely supported by Matt Mullenweg, the developer of WordPress?

All these things have been addressed, as have the concerns over what happens when someone tries to place blame on the install team for doing anything other than installing.

There are many rules that have been laid out for this, and they’re all either in the maillist archives, or on the install4free website.

I’m sorry if you don’t want to take the time to do some research on your own. But all of these things you’ve brought up have already been addressed in the other places mentioned. This thread was not written (at least to my knowledge) so as to discuss whether or not people think it’s a good idea, but rather to announce the service.

Whether you, or anyone else chooses to do their own research and come to their own conclusions, is completely and totally your call – no one’s saying you don’t have a right to decline the offer for installation being done for you, should you have any fears. There’s no arm-twisting going on, it’s just something that a bunch of people thought would be a nice thing to do for people… It just so happens, that the people involved ARE well respected members of this community, whether or not you choose to take the time to discover that for yourself or not. Again, no one’s saying that you have to believe us when we tell you that – it’s all laid right out there for you, and you were even given links.

I think the problem here is that the nay-sayers have yet to do this research themselves. And that if something doesn’t agree with them, they feel the need to get nasty about it. (This is a general statement, not at any one person in particular… )

The absolute best thing anyone can do when they want to find out more about something, is to stop asking questions for a moment, and ensure they’ve done as much research as they can… THEN, if you have questions about something, by all means ask. But by making assumptions toward the negative, yeah, of course you’re gonna wind up upsetting people.

What would’ve happened if the US told France that they didn’t think their gift of the Statue of Liberty was a good idea, AFTER it was built? People have already put a lot of time, effort, thought, and discussion into this project. It’s all set up, is supported by Matt, is supported by Podz, and is supported by again, well-respected members of this forum.

I still can’t see where all the negativity is needed here. Like it or don’t – use it or don’t – but for god’s sake, don’t assume the worst of these people without taking the time to do your research. (And if you have, and still choose to conclude that these people are untrustworthy, either walk away from it or you need to expect that those of us who know them better than you do, will disagree with you.)

manstraw, im not insulting you. Im asking you what your intentions are? Why you care, when obviously a service like this wouldnt be useful to you? Why do you have an interest?

Youre not an interested party — so what do you care?

“what if an installer…

To which I ask, are you an installer? You arent. So again, I ask, why do you care? How bout letting those that need to worry about that, worry about that.

ldl, youre not one of the complainers, youre one of the defenders..

Well, after reading this thread and all the defensiveness about it, I must say that I’m rather shocked.

As I see it, the posters to this thread offered legitimate criticisms and were met with scorn and derision.

Not a good start, methinks.

I do WP installs for money (a bit over 200 currently) but I’ve also done many for free for folks who absolutely don’t have the money for it all or I just fall for a sob story…or whatever.
Personally, I don’t see the harm in the free process. It will be strictly for beginners as anyone with the knowledge will install WP themselves. Also, likely most of the folks will be in the category of “no money to spare” and probably deserve a break – I mean with domain names and hosting…
And like a lot of folks on here will actually dig into it and customize and come help out (I know it’s rare).
So I ask what’s the harm?
The installers, as has been pointed out, are trusted by the larger WP community and that does count for something – I mean, it’s not like they’re going to be setting up banking sites or sites for the NSA :>).
So, as a paid installer I think this is a wonderful idea and I even offer my services if they’re ever needed.

Criticisms aren’t legitimate until they’ve been formed only after thorough research.

And if you watch, it’s the constructive arguments – those that approached things with a “maybe you should…” have been thoughtfully considered, and some have been implemented (for example, the suggestion of putting the forum users sn’s and profile links on the site – this was talked about again, in the maillist, amongst those involved, and agreed upon, and done).

I think it’s mostly the “what ifs” that were spit out without those people taking time to really understand what the whole thing is about that are met with opposition… and rightfully so I feel.

It’s not up to the forum members as to whether or not the service exists. It’s only up to them as to whether or not they use it. If people make an educated decision not to – no one’s going to bash them. It’s those who don’t bother to educate themselves before slamming the idea that likely upset everyone.

“I don’t like it.” or “Bad idea.” is a far more harsh approach than “I’m not understanding this, please explain…”

Again, the discussion is focused on everything but the service and how it works. I would hope we could discuss points of the service instead of whether or not I’m allowed to express my concerns here. I think this will be the last time I respond to whether or not I can speak my concerns. I’ll get back to discussioning relevent points at the end of this post.

whooami, You didn’t ask what my intentions are in the post you refer too. You suggested my intentions should come into question, which is something very different, and quite acusatory. My intentions have been stated, but I’ll state them again. I’m trying to decide if I should advocate the service or not. I have assisted a great number of people with installing their wordpress blogs, none of whom have ever come to this forum.

I don’t understand why you say I’m not an interested party. Of course I’m interested. Am I not allowed to have concerns or opinions? An announcement was made in this forum. Do I, or do I not have a right to discuss the announcement and address some concerns that may be also felt by those who choose not to speak? I guess I shouldn’t ask you that, as you are not a moderator.

Lady, I have read some of the archives, but certainly not all of them. I was not aware of the discussion for this service until the announcement was made. I feel this is the appropriate place to raise concerns, as this forum is being used to announce the service. Should something I might raise have already been addressed in the archived discussions, I would welcome you or someone else stating as much, and providing a link to the point. I believe that fits the spirit of this forum, rather than just telling me to go read everything before I’m allowed to speak up.

Lady, you quoted me, and then gave a rather lengthy response. Are you still addressing me when you refer to the naysayers getting nasty? If you read this thread, you’ll find I was never nasty. You’ll also find I’m not a naysayer. Go back and read my original comment. https://www.ads-software.com/support/topic/79287?replies=39#post-409670. I state quite plainly that I hope it’s successful. You’ve admited making generalizations. How are we supposed to make progress in a discussion when you generalize and ultimately acuse me of things I haven’t done. Is it possible for you to address my points directly? I would personally appreciate that to the alternative of whether or not I should make any points in the first place.

I have also never assumed the worst of anyone, or that anyone involved is untrustworthy. I have made no ‘assumptions towards the negative’ as you state. I have also made no assumptions towards the postive, and I think that’s what many people seem to have a problem with. Please correct me if I’m wrong in that assumption. I’m just trying to understand why my thoughts and concerns for how to make this a workable system do not seem to be tolerated by some people.

I’m glad to hear the Matt is supporting the project. As this thread progressed, the nick’s of the installers was made public on the site, but only after Matt suggested it be done. That page had previously stated that their identities would not be revealed, which was very likely was spawned *someone else* intially raising this concern. A brief discussion in this thread effected a change in policy. Obviously, the maillist discussion was insufficient to address the concerns *of everyone* to a sufficient degree. This forum is a terrific place to hear the concerns of many more people. That is a good thing.

More eyes and more concerns heard can only help improve this service. I’m not trying to derail this service. If this is your opinion, I would ask that you reevaluate it, as it is an inaccurate assessment of my purpose.

And now back to some relevent issues. I’d like to hear some opinions on putting the request for the installation behind an SSL certificate. The SSL certificate has a verified owner, and would represent the ultimate person you would choose to trust and who will vouch for your installer. You will personally earn some of my respect if you discuss this point instead of addressing whether or not I have the right to make the point itself. I’m interested in hearing from the actual installation crew, as well as those who might use the service.

edit: I should add that I’ve looked through that maillist, and haven’t found mention of an ssl certificate from an appropriate authority. If I’ve missed it, I would appreciate a link to the appropriate place.

manstraw – i’m sorry if my switching from a direct quote of yours to a general statment was confusing.

my point is this – i don’t believe that this announcement was made, after months of discussing it amongst a dozen people (with dozens more who COULD have, but did not, voice their thoughts), with the desire to receive criticisms here in the forum.

the discussion about whether or not to include names was held in the maillist also if i remember correctly, with people stating that they wouldn’t mind if their names were listed. the problem is that people now want even more than that, and they want information that is already available to them just by clicking some links. this is where the lack of “doing your own research” comes in.

i’m not going to hunt through the maillist archives to answer anyone’s questions – that’s what they’re there for, and i’m not a librarian. the archives and the active list are open to anyone and everyone. none of this was secretive, and any ideas, thoughts, concerns, etc. were brought up there, and should continue to be brought up there, rather than allowing things to escalate here.

i’m not saying by any stretch that you don’t have a right to state your opinions or concerns – i’m suggesting that rather than try to engage a debate here in the forums, that maybe you bring it to where it all began. where 75 people, who have already (at least) heard and seen the whole discussion, and 15 or so people have actively participated in it. i think that bringing up these concerns here in the forum will not only APPEAR that you’re against the idea by the nature of your statments, but will also serve to confuse and upset people who have no idea at all what’s going on, might want to know more, but don’t know where to go, or are afraid to ask because of the hostility that’s bound to appear here.

you will hear everything you need to hear from the actual installation crew if you partake in the already in-progress discussion over at the maillist. or, at the very least, make use of the form on the install4free website.

personally, i, like a few others, feel that this post should’ve been made (with the details it has, and maybe some links to the maillist archives), closed, and “stickied” to assure people that it’s valid and supported by www.ads-software.com. then people would’ve been forced to do the research in it’s entirety, and would’ve been unable to make some of the harsh statments that had been made (and no, “harsh statments” is not directed at YOU personally, manstraw) out here for all to see, and get upset with.

maybe there should be a maillist for the installation service where people can continue to discuss their concerns (opinions are another story)… i don’t know.

i don’t feel the maillist was insufficent discussion. i feel that it’s not up to the install team to ensure that everyone gets a say as to whether or not the service should exist. i don’t feel it’s up to anyone to force the 50+ people who could have but didn’t say anything to say something. and i don’t feel that the forums are the proper place for debates PERIOD. i’ve been involved in a few in the past, (so have you manstraw) and they NEVER turn out well…

and as far as i’m aware, no one’s discussed your idea of the SSL – so maybe bringing that to where everyone is, and that’s the maillist, would be a good idea if you want to get your opinion heard and considered.

Just to add a bit to the SSL bit. (I’m not discussing the other stuff anymore). I see that page where a person is required to enter their confidential information has a wildcard certificate (just a quick look, I didn’t dig deep). Not quite what I had in mind, but at least the information is encrypted, which is what I expected to find in the very least. However, I’m not getting my little lock symbol. I think I know why, but I’m sure this people responsible for the page are more the capable of figuring out the solution.

At this point, from what I’ve read, I’m not quite ready to recommend the service. I will watch this thread for further announcements of procedural changes. My areas of concern have been stated.

Good luck everyone. I hope it’s successful, and look forward to updates on it’s success.

I’d like to thank the initiators and my personal supporter who did the wordpress installation for me through this service two days before. When asking for this support, I achieved his profile and mainpage prompt and trusted in his experience and his good name in wordpress forums. For me, it was an experiment, too, and I am glad of being part of it. For me, this service was interesting, because I was in a need for the system to run immediately, in order to get my home blog including some additional java script plugins, which are blocked in my free wordpress.com account. Now that it runs, i’ve got enough time and patience to install some more themes and plugins, but my intention was to get my blog working on my own domain, which was completely new for me. Again, thanks for your support!