Misaligned Guidelines for Improvement

Where To Post

The forum is split into sections, with each forum having its own one-line description on the front page. Please try to choose the most suitable section for your new topic, and please post your topic in only one section. Multi posting is frowned upon. Duplicate postings will be closed or might be deleted. Posting your own topic is smiled upon. Unless you are using the same version of WordPress on the same physical server hosted by the same hosts with the same plugins, theme & configurations as the original poster, do not post in someone else’s thread. Start your own topic.

https://codex.www.ads-software.com/Forum_Welcome#Where_To_Post

I don’t think there’s any disagreement as to what the forum guidelines say. A cursory reading of the post indicates that the OP is looking to have a discussion about the appropriateness of the rule.

One only need to look outside the PHP/WordPress world to see examples of this. It’s quite popular for people to add “this affects me too” or even just a thumbs up emoji over on GitHub issues. People also use the same thread to share their solutions. Rather than having a dozen calls for help, one with a solution, we now have one place with a dozen confirmations and a solution. And the maintainer knows what the biggest problems are.

If you go to StackOverflow and ask a question that’s already been asked, you’ll get shut down pretty quickly as a duplicate and told to post in the original thread.

I realize the technical bar is set a bit lower in the WordPress world as a result of the “Design for the Majority” philosophy and as a result, non technical people often mistake other people’s problems for their own. However there must be something between a regimented “Always make your own post” and “all pile on one thread”.

Every support resource has its own way of working. Here, one has been developed – over time and based on extensive experience – that works well… for here. These forms are not StackOverflow or GitHub. They are quite different. “Me too” posts contribute nothing of benefit to a topic and usually means that the whole topic becomes confused as plugin/theme authors try to juggle competing issues and answers get cross-posted and mis-understood. Been There. Done That. Got the T-shirt.

If we could guarantee that people didn’t post “Me too” unless they were using the same version of WordPress on the same physical server hosted by the same hosts with the same plugins, theme & configurations as the original poster, then perhaps we wouldn’t have these problems. But we cannot. If we could guarantee that people actually read & follow the advice in the Forum Welcome, perhaps we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But we cannot.

The fact remains that the chance of a successful resolution of a topic is inversely proportional to the square of the number of different posters with similar issues involved. Until that changes, posting your own topic is still be best way to maximise your chances of an answer and a solution. And we will continue to protect the interests of the original poster by, politely, pointing people towards their own topic.

However there must be something between a regimented “Always make your own post” and “all pile on one thread”.

That’s part of it but there’s another aspect to it.

When you or anyone posts a topic in these forums that topic belongs to the original poster. It’s that person’s topic and not the theme author or plugin author or anyone else’s topic.

When you reply to help that OP the crowd goes wild and everyone cheers. SCORE! Good job everyone.

But when someone else who has a problem and hops on the thread then they’re not helping the OP. That really is hijacking that topic and that’s not cool.

I’ve just dealt with another 2 or 3 in the last 15 minutes that are perfect examples:

1. New post in an 8 month old topic. That means the OP was using a much older version of WordPress and probably a different version of the plugin.

2. New post in a 1 month old resolved topic. Yeh – that’s really going to maximise the chances of the poster being answered.

3. New post not with the same issue but a “similar” one. In reality, the “similar” problem probably has a completely different cause.

And looking back:

there is a strong disagreement on how support should be distributed through the forums

Actually just one poster objected and frankly seemed more interested in arguing the issue than actually contributing to a solution. That really did not help anyone.

I can appreciate your points, Jan and esmi. It seems the crowd of people that come here for help is different than what I’m used to and require different ways of dealing with them.

In my opinion it sounds like people are more interested in following the guidelines and maintaining their system than they are of truly being helpful to individuals that are seeking help.

For example in the original issue presented that spurred this whole debate today, the first response from esmi was:

“@Michi1: It is considered impolite to interrupt another poster’s ongoing thread unless you are posting a solution or suggestion. As per the Forum Welcome, please post your own topic.”

That’s not helpful! Instead, why not take the same amount of time and try to find out if @michi1 is indeed experiencing the same problems with the same version of WordPress and the plugin. Forcing people to also match server configuration is probably unneeded except for more extreme troubleshooting tasks.

Once it was determined that @michi1 was using a different version of WordPress and the plugin, THEN encourage them to post their own thread for all the reasons and benefits that were behind the reasons for the guidelines in the first place.

In my opinion it sounds like people are more interested in following the guidelines and maintaining their system than they are of truly being helpful

I’m sorry you feel that way but I disagree and you’re mistaken. See my comment above about hijacking other people’s problem.

Before you begin arguing back: do you really not see that hijacking someone else’s problem is being amazingly disrespectful to that person who posted that problem?

tl;dr It is and you’re not arguing for the users, you’re arguing against moderators doing what they’re supposed to and that’s to keep the conversation moving for the OP.

If you want to help the OP then great job and that’s encouraged. If you want to take the focus off of the OP’s problem or resurrect old topics then that will lead to moderation.

It seems the crowd of people that come here for help is different than what I’m used to and require different ways of dealing with them.

Yep. I think that’s the big difference between here and (say) StackOverflow or any resource that is specifically geared towards tech-types. The range of skills & knowledge amongst those posting for help here ranges from the near-guru-status down to almost zero knowledge. So we have to come up with ways of channelling help (and people) that works across the board. When people start trying to buck this system, it breaks down big time and then we get the “why aren’t my posts answered” complaints.

At the end of the day, we are all trying to get people in the right place to get their questions answered as quickly and effectively as possible.

It should be in your interest to post in a new thread to discuss your problem. By posting in an existing thread you are only visible to those who just happen to be looking in that thread. Plus in a new thread you get added to the no-replies list where threads with no answers can be tracked and sometimes prioritised by volunteers.

That’s not helpful! Instead, why not take the same amount of time and try to find out if @michi1 is indeed experiencing the same problems with the same version of WordPress and the plugin.

We really have tried that method already. After all the time you spend digging down into someone’s issue you realise that it is not the same as the OP’s issue, and you’ve just ruined the OP’s thread. Who’s going to answer now?

And since when do people “know” their issue is the same as other people’s? More likely they’re just seeing the same symptom.

I’ve not yet seen a good reason to post everyone’s issues on the same thread. Please put forward your reason for this and we can discuss it.

Andrew, you’re using a strawman. No one is arguing for putting everyone’s issues in the same thread.

What we had earlier was someone that provided a problem along with instructions for reproduction. Someone followed on and said “I did that, saw the same problem, and also tried this too.” As a software developer I look at that and say “awesome! I wish more people would do that!”.

The gist of the better thought out posts above is “that may be true, but in most cases the people that post here are one level above asking where the ‘any’ key is so we’ve found it best to assume we’ll need to start from ‘is it powered on?’ and take every question on its own”.

Most of the arguments made in here seem to stem from this assumption that anyone that posts here is clueless. That’s fine, and if it means that the forums run more smoothly then more power to you. But as you’ve seen you’re alienating the more technical members.

Sean

Then the strawman is only in my most recent post. Please take forward all of my advice given in this thread.

Actually, SWalberg, I think it’s not a strawman, but we’re on the same page. The disagreement isn’t that people shouldn’t post on other people’s threads to discuss the issue and come to a solution.

The OP however is talking about whether it’s best to create your own thread to discuss your own issue, or post in someone else’s thread (that looks like its discussing the same issue) to discuss your own issue. Look I’m not trying to create a strawman, but you are not talking about the same thing.