Newbie installation tip – I wasted 2 weeks; this might help you

We sort of assume you read https://www.ads-software.com/about

On this site you can download and install a software script called WordPress. To do this you need a web host who meets the minimum requirements and a little time. WordPress is completely customizable and can be used for almost anything. There is also a service called WordPress.com which lets you get started with a new and free WordPress-based blog in seconds, but varies in several ways and is less flexible than the WordPress you download and install yourself.

The install part is something a lot of us think is obvious, and thus it’s something we can miss unless someone says ‘I put wordpress on my pc but it won’t install.’ or complain it’s missing an exe file.

Even the where to start page says you install and THEN customize.

https://codex.www.ads-software.com/New_To_WordPress_-_Where_to_Start

Sorry it was such a pain for you, and I hope you enjoy using WP in the future. Once you get over the first hurdle, it does get easier ?? remember, you weren’t born knowing how to ride a bicycle either!

Yes, I read those…and more. hundreds of Codex pages (many I didn’t know until I’d been at it a few days were outdated and for some reason no one removed them); a couple books (the first one BEFORE reading that there were TWO WordPress systems – $25 down the drain on WordPress.com instruction).

But thee is no clear: 1) To install and test the site on your own computer do this: “xxxx”; then 2) to move your modifier files to the site do this: “zzzzz”.

…and my biggest CURRENT problem is I have no clue how to accomplish #2 above. I’ve searched for hours in the Codex, on other sites – I swear it’s like some outside force ERASED all the infomation!

And although I know the installation was done the right way this time I’m STILL stuck.

I do believe the initial post of my thread might be helpful to newbies….but only ones with some kind of programming background.

No, it’s an assumption. You read the part about getting a web host, which is mentioned all over and in that link I gave you.

You have to move the files to your web host. Now, if you don’t know how to do that, either by FTP or SSH, then you ask them. Every host is a bit different, so they SHOULD have directions telling you how to upload files.

See, we generally assume that you have basic website experience. After all, self hosting means you are managing your files on your server, so … Yeah, we assume you know what that means. Go ask your web host how to upload files.

Go back to this article: https://codex.www.ads-software.com/New_To_WordPress_-_Where_to_Start

Under section two, BEFORE you install, there is information about web hosts. That may explain some of what’s throwing you off.

Yes I read that – and yes, I talked to the host before doing anything. No need to be condescending. WP installation is NOT similar to other website creation software and that is not made clear by the marketing folks who push it as a good static-page system

I DO know how to move file to a web host – but I have read conflicting posts, Codex articles and off-WP site info that indicate it’s NOT a wholesale move, some editing may be required (without specifics) – sort of a rubik’s cube of “WE know how it works – but we’re not telling.

The very example you posted shows how tangled-up someone from a “static” background gets:

” * Will you install WordPress in the root directory, subdirectory, or you just want to make a test site to make sure you want to use it?
* Have you made a list of your site Categories? Understand that WordPress can only order Categories alphabetically by name or by ID (order entered through the Manage > Categories screen), so if the display order of your Categories is important to you, start making your list of Categories.
* Have you made a list of Pages you may want to add to your site, such as About, Contact, or Events? “

WP uses “categories” where others don’t – so how the heck would I know in advance what categories I’d use in software that’s new to me and “categories” is a unique definition?

Others have chided me for not understanding that you don’t create “pages” in WP and upload them as you would with other software – yet this section of the “Codex” wants you to perdict the future of an item that doesn’t exist.

“Items, events”??? I don’t know. They will come up at some point and need to be added. But starting out with creation of a sire, again there’s NO way to know!

This line: “Will you install WordPress in the root directory, subdirectory, or you just want to make a test site to make sure you want to use it?”

-besides having confusing syntax has no references to explain WHY one would be better than the other.

I have found NO..ZERO…ZILCH information (after probably 800-1000 searches clearly explaining the most basic facts:

1.”Install” means put it on the HOST server”

2.Installation of MAMP is to run it on you OWN machine.

3. The two are not related. You can’t get a page working on you machine, upload it and have it run immediately.

4. The marketing seems to go after the “quick website creation” programs now more than “blogs”. In fact, I only knew of it in passing as I don’t have time to spend reading blogs.

5. But the missing piece is how to glue the parts together. There is no (and again, I may have missed it – with thousands of new, old and incomplete Codex documents that is a possibility)step-by-step method showing you how to install on-line, build your site offline, and then take the offline “stuff” (they’re not pages, so I do not know what to call them) and upload them to where you pre-installed WordPress.

6. And the REAL puzzler to me – why does it have to be installed on the host’s server FIRST if your finished site material will replace it?

I’m not trying to rain on the parade, and I see great potential IF I can get it working. But I am not the only one who gut sucked it by the marketing fluff that does nothing to explain what might be a simple process. And again – if it IS a simple process, why isn’t it laid out in a a nice, orderly fashion somewhere?

Im not trying to be condescending. Sorry if plain text comes off that way. I was attempting to explain to you that there is a basic level of Savvy that comes with hosting a webpage, and yes, the Codex DOES assume that you have it.

So. To your point. The files you are uploading to your server are

1. the core code
2. your config files
3. any themes and plugins you want

That’s it. The only two files you’re editing are the wp-config.php file and the .htacess files. And the latter, most people edit later.

The directions are written to help you think about HOW you want to use wordpress, which while it’s a good CMS, is still a blog in it’s roots, and it shows.

Also, there is no marketing department. Just enthusiast ??

If you had uploaded the files, unzipped from source, to your host and put in https://domain.com/wp-admin/installer.php You would have gotten a nice welcome screen telling you what to do, how to edit the file if you had not already, and a walkthrough.

I’m sorry you felt the information was confusing, and I will say that if you read everything, from installing to moving to installing in MAMP, it can be easy to get caught up and overthink it. But having installed many a web app like WordPress, they pretty much all work this way. WordPress, coppermine, zenphoto, mediawiki, any forum software. This is how it works.

It does get easier the second time around, though. Soon this will be second nature.

“See, we generally assume…”

I’m not being argumentative, and your posts are quite helpful, thanks. But I have to ask about the partial quote avbove:

Who is/are “we”?

And contrary (unfortunately) to your last post, when I finally nuked just about everything except one theme on my computer, re-downloaded (to ensure I had a fresh copy, and installed it on ipage, following both their and the WordPress docs – I got no welcome screen. No step-by step ANYTHING. There IS an install file buried in a directory, and not being one to click things at random I haven’t touched it – there are no instructions to do so.

Rhetorical question – wouldn’t an “install” file be placed somewhere more obvious like the root directory?

OK, now to real stuff – see the attached and there is NO mention of creating https://www.(mysite)/wp-admin/installer.phpThe is no htaccess file (unless it’s buried in a directory and I didn’t notice it – but from your post it appears it didn’t install correctly…if at all.

The ipage WordPress install routine simply stresses to find the “root” with a world icon and install everything but the scripts (which go into the cgi-bin directory) into that root; they make a point of saying it could be called root, public_html or htdocs. at the root, create a folder (or directory) of no specific name.

And nothing worked even though (as you suggested) that I follow the host’s step-by-step instructions and got a “successful install” notice when it was done.

Also, yes, I’m aware of how to use ftp software – Filezilla, ws_ftp (which I used almost daily in my Windows days) Cyberduck and bout 6-7 others. I always check files sizes after transfer to look for obvious errors as well.

And while I don’t code very well I can tweak html and clone pages, make changes, add/delete content etc.

I thin a big point, though, is the TYPE of software I was using – Dreamweaver, WebEasy Pro, NVU, Kompozer, iWeb and a few others; clone/modify or fix a page and upload it along with whatever graphics were required However I’ve never heard of a single one of the programs you mentioned.

My conclusion is that there are just two completely separate wolds, and nobody has ever bothered to try to tie them together (FWIW I know at least a dozen others – some before I tried this, some after I started, with similar issues – it’s not an isolated problem).

As far as the “we” reference, it was half in jest – but SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE is in charge – and there sure as heck IS marketing; there are trademarks and advertising, so it’s not the volunteer-enterprise everyone thinks it is.

While typing this reply I also discovered a note saying my wp-config on my computer needed to match the one on the site – and I had some problmes with the editor after the upload after the upload and changed it.

Bad idea. Now I can’t get into my site AT ALL. Anywhere.

So unless someone bothers to read this lengthy explanation and knows how to solve THAT issue as well, I’m dead. My only hoe is to fake something with iweb (lame, but I can do it quickly) and after (probably) getting dumped on in a presentation make a no-deadline decision to keep trying to find out how to make WordPress work or just get early use out of the fireplace…

Edited to add – opened wp-install in my browser and was sent to the dashboard. When I tried to view the ONE page I’d put together it went to the generic 2010 theme – which I didn’t activate.

I’m ever closer to tossing this mess off a pier.

Yes, it can be a pain at times, but I’ve found wordpress to be a useful tool. You did make some assumptions that have cost you time, and that won’t do the blood pressure much good. I have a similar problem, in that I spent considerable time making a mock up for a client to show them how much easier their site management would be using wp as a cms (content management system). They’ve agreed and I’ve spent today finding out about crap web hosts. The crowd my client uses don’t use Fantastico, which I’m used to, and wanted $75 to swap from a windows server to linux so wp could be installed. I had to argue with them later because they thought I’d like to do the install. They agreed to do it, mumbling about their clients usually know how.

My advice:
Only use hosts who give you Fantastico. Honestly, one or two clicks and the database and script are setup and ready to run. Less than a minute.
And don’t be flustered by nerd types who are full of themselves.

I don’t think there are issues with the host. For several reasons we went with iPage; they seem WP-friendly, just ran an entire blog series on how to install it and WP is specifically noted on their CP (cost was NOT a factor in our decision, btw. In our particular business “green” isn’t a color, it’s a marketing tag, and iPage has a strong “green” placement.That point, the WP-specific notes on their site and features we think are usable in the future were the reason. I also called them 3 times with misc questions and had 2 screen chats just to see if they were as good as rating show, and never waited more than a minute (plus got the right answers).

But back to specifics – if there is suppose to be an htaccess file somewhere it’s not obvious in the Codex (unless I just missed it in the thousand or so pages I waded through, with who knows how many more unread) and the file would be created as part of the WP installation.- right?

So if that’s the issue – is there some way to create it? Or is it just part of a row of dominos that will start falling if I do?

I guess what I’m getting at is this – do I delete absolutely everything from the host and my system (including MAMP) and start with a clean plate?

If so the question STILL remains of how/what is uploaded to the host *after* installation and at what point?

I’ve had so many answers to questions that fog that point that I am clueless; why do I install to a host AND run what I’m working on using MAMP with no way of knowing what goes FROM my computer to the host?

Silverface,

I have been following your WordPress odyssey with some interest. Let me say, first of all, that I am a WordPress “enthusiast”. I think it is a great tool, and I use it for almost all of my web development projects, both business and personal.

However, I also acknowledge that WordPress may not be the best tool in every situation. There are some very basic scope questions that the person(s) who advised you to use WordPress should have asked, before giving you that advice:

• What kind of web site are you trying to build? What is its purpose?
• What type(s) of content will you have on the site? That is, if you were to write a table of contents for the finished web site on a piece of paper, what would be written on the paper?
• How frequently will the site need to be updated, once it is built?
• Will anyone other than you be responsible for updating the site, or adding new content?
• Do you need user-created content on your site — for example, user-submitted reviews, comments, polls and surveys, etc.?

You see, you were absolutely correct when you said, “My conclusion is that there are just two completely separate worlds.” Dreamweaver/NVU/Kompozer is Venus, and WordPress (and all script-driven CMS) is Mars. Almost nothing that you learned building sites the NVU/Kompozer way will be transferable to the WordPress world. You are starting over from scratch. And given the level of confusion that you have expressed thus far in your forum posts, I would estimate that you have at least another 80-120 hours of work ahead of you, before you are able to build a prototype site that comes close to what you have in mind. And even then, it is only the beginning of the learning process.

I do not mean that as a negative judgment against you. I think the confusion you are experiencing is perfectly understandable for a person coming from a Dreamweaver/NVU/Kompozer background. The question you need to ask now is, is it worth investing that much time learning how to build a site using WordPress, relative to the benefit it might give you in the long run? WordPress certainly does have advantages over more static methods of web site creation, however those advantages are more evident in some types of web sites than others. That is why I asked the questions I did before, so I can understand what type of web site you are trying to build. If you would care to take a few minutes answering those questions, then I, or someone else here, could advise you as to whether WordPress is an appropriate solution for you.

Great post – thanks.

I guess the most bothersome thing is (not in your case) that I’ve had private comments essentially telling me I’m incompetent or that I refuse to read instructions.

I’m neither. And I’ve read COUNTLESS pages – my of which I find are outdated or conflict with some other part of the Codex; and no matter WHAT anyone hs claimed, nowhere is it clear that you “install” WP on your host (but not until you change some critical files); the host may say “use any of these 2 or 3 folders but WP says to use another; and once it’s installed it does not run on YOUR computer…and if it did there are no instructions for uploading changes you’ve made (what files, where to put them etc.)./

But to answer your questions:

* What kind of web site are you trying to build? What is its purpose?

A product re information site for construction products and services.
The purpose is to promote our “selling functions on one handand our consultant work as a second “group.
* What type(s) of content will you have on the site? That is, if you were to write a table of contents for the finished web site on a piece of paper, what would be written on the paper?

I laid the entire thing out and explained it to BOTH people who recommended WP: The home page would have a short intro, custom header with logo, and two hierarchical menus – one with products (under the “product” heading”; one with services. Some item under products or services would have single, others multiple selections.

There would be a usual contactus link with a page noting our phone, fax,address…and one of the other pages would have links to products built not leaving the site.
* How frequently will the site need to be updated, once it is built?

Hopefully weekly – I wanted to have an ever-changing “question” or tip of the week with answer (that was one of the reasons for WP, even though I don’t think I’ve read a blog – ever!

* Will anyone other than you be responsible for updating the site, or adding new content?

NO

* Do you need user-created content on your site — for example, user-submitted reviews, comments, polls and surveys, etc.?

No

This is what I don’t get – I “see” a header that is the same on each page; a center content area with text/images pertaining to that subject; and exactly the same menu on every page for easy navigation.

But after doing some work on it locally I was told creating pages was wrong – I need “categories”my response was “then how to I find my pages to upload them” – with no response.

Then I created menus – but they not only didn’t show up, the pages were messed up and the previously-created list of pages)or menu, or whatever it is) 2)stayed below the bottom line of content (even with the “page menu” in the left sidebar, which no one ever solved – and none of the menu item linked to the pages I created.

So I killed all that, started from scratch, deleted everything and reinstalled to the host first (which make no sense still) – which gives me an under construction” page, but not my OTHER “under construction page with at least an email address and phone number(I kept that on my computer so I could upload it after installation)!

So customers who have been saturated with contact info get a picture of a cow pasture. Great for condtruction consultants.

I hope that anwers everything. I’ve explained this to 15-20 people.

Thanks – Jim

Jim,

If I understand what you have explained correctly, basically you are trying to create a “brochure” type of site to promote your small business — a home page, an About page, a Contact page, and some pages describing your products and services. You are not trying to sell products directly through the site (e-commerce), nor are you trying to create a magazine type site with articles published on a regular schedule (e-publishing). Is that right?

If that is the case, you do not need WordPress to build a brochure site. You can do it just as effectively using static page building software like Dreamweaver or Kompozer. The bulk of the content will not need to be updated very often, nor does it sound like there will be much need to add new content on a regular basis once the site is built. Most of the maintenance task will be small things like occasionally updating the product prices/descriptions, or adding a new “tip of the week.” Since you have sole responsibility for maintaining the site, and since you are already proficient with static page building software, you can easily make these changes yourself in about the same time it would take to log in to the WordPress admin console and make the changes there.

Now it is certainly possible to create a brochure type of site using WordPress. In fact, I am doing exactly that right now for one of my clients (who also happens to be in the construction business). However, my reason for choosing WordPress for him is that he has no experience whatsoever in building web pages, or in using FTP utilities. I want him to be able to make simple changes to his content like editing his contact information, without having to spend lots of time learning the technical aspects. So I am building the site for him using WordPress, and when it is done I’ll show him how to log in to the admin console and change the text using the edit box. That way, he never has to muck around with page building programs or FTP utilities just to update his phone number.

But you already know how to do those things. Building your brochure site in WordPress is not going to give you any advantage, since you can just as easily keep it updated using the tools and skills you have now. The only way it might come in useful is if someone else in your business some day needed to take over the site maintenance task from you. It would be marginally easier to train that person in how to use the WordPress admin console than it would be to train them to use Dreamweaver and FileZilla. But even then, learning the admin console will not give them the ability to change the design of the site — only to update the text, and add new pages. Changing the design requires the creation of a custom theme, and building a custom WordPress theme is a task several orders of magnitude more complicated that simply installing and using WordPress, as you have discovered.

I am sorry you had a less-than-ideal experience with WordPress. It really is a wonderful tool in those situations — like blogging, online magazine publishing, and podcasting — where its strengths shine the brightest. We geeks all suffer from a type of near-sightedness, where we get so close to the technology we cannot see the forest for the trees, but sometimes stepping back for a moment and doing a basic business analysis reveals a simpler solution. While I firmly believe that WordPress can be made to do almost anything, there are some cases where it may not be the best tool, and your case may be one of them.

I hope you have found some help in my musings. I wish you best of luck with your web site, and your business.

Well – That was the single most useful reply I have received…and you’re the FIRST one to actually understand completely what the site “plan” is. There may be some e-commerce in the future, but in that case I’d call in a professional (both to ensure the code is absolutely correct and for security reasons).

I have a small, basically unused site on a small host that I use mainly for ftp transfers of larger files; the WP suggestion initially came from there, then was reinforced by my old business host (who will only host their creations at enormous fees); then nearly everyone I interacted with re WP stayed on the WP track but gave me suggestions for…well, I guess forcing a square peg into a round holes would be the best analogy.

But after all this time having more of my hair turn gray (but at least not falling out…just the ones I YANKED out!) I CAN see some possibilities – however, your estimate of needing another 2-3 weeks to get it working is almost exactly what I was thinking – yet others said “I can get you up and running in 10 minutes!)

I now see they had NO concept of what I need. Combine that with the (IMO) absolutely chaotic Codex (I still don’t comprehend that a 5-screen document could be “active” but irrelevant and outdated) and books on the subject are useless, being outdated the day of publication (those writers are making a killing, since none of the material is current…so you by another…and another…)

So – while I am not that proficient in NVU/Kompozer (those…actually the same thing…and iWeb are the only site-builders I have), having created pages only by cloning another page, and modded others only by adding items to a menu, changing pics and rewriting text – never actually formatting a page from a blank slate – it sounds now like I really have wasted almost 3 weeks.

Thank you for the advice. I think you’re right on the mark. It’s very disheartening to ALREADY have missed projected deadlines; be in a position (last night) of thinking I was on the right track; being unable to run my local setup at all, apparently killing what I DID have and then learning today that – apparently – no one except ambrosite REALLY tried to understand my needs (which I explained innumerable times in the simplest of terms).

Oh well – I was a communications and English major years ago – and a math-phobic. When I see code, I see math – and when I see the code used in CSS and php files I see math, strange formatting, AND a foreign language (another weakness). (side comment – I don’t expect any answers to this, but to me it’s really strange 1) that each line of code does not have a corresponding line number for locating test changes quickly and 2) the code is spread out all over the place instead of in a left-justified manner – the only way I’ve ever seen it done).

So I’ll look at my two existing software choices carefully and if they seem too tough for starting a page from “zero” I’ll hunt around for what I asked for from the beginning – an OSX drag-and-drop website creation system.

But I may keep WordPress in my “hip pocket” for one of my personal sites – they are far less complicated and WP seems much more appropriate (music sites – I have a dicussion page and a personal page both related to different musical instruments, styles etc.

Thanks again for your honesty. I REALLY needed that as I was thinking WP forum folks came in two categories – newbies and total fanatics. The preceding post was the reality check.

Now I need to figure out if MAMP screwed up anything on my system and/or if WP placed files all over the directory structure.

Thanks again – very much!

Dear Silver –
I have also had experience with Dreamweaver type composing and installation of websites, and still maintain a couple. The five or so other sites I manage have been converted to WordPress.

The ability to quickly update directly to the web is much more efficient for me.

I also had some difficulties in the beginning – also installing the software on my computer in error the first time…but the learning curve is short and the results are impressive (if your site plan is suited to the format).

In my situation, my initial frustration at entering the learning curve certainly paid off. I’m an enthusiastic user of WordPress now.

Jim,

You are most welcome. I’m glad to hear you may give WordPress another try in the future. It is certainly worth learning, if you have the time to invest in it, and if the investment serves your business objectives. Some aspects of WordPress are easy, and some aspects are quite a bit harder. It depends on what exactly you are trying to accomplish, and that is why it always pays to do a business analysis before diving in.

In regard to those people telling you they could get it up and running in 10 minutes — yes, it is possible to do that, if you have some experience with CMS software, and if you are willing to use a pre-built theme pulled from the theme directory. However, what you were trying to do was create a custom theme, and it is most definitely not possible to create a custom WordPress theme in ten minutes. The first time I attempted it myself, it took nearly three full days, and I was already somewhat experienced in writing CSS and PHP code. For a person with no working knowledge of CSS and PHP, it could easily take weeks.

That is why, when I realized you came from a NVU/Kompozer background, I knew you had a steep learning curve ahead of you. As I am sure you know, Dreamweaver/NVU/Kompozer/iWeb are essentially code generators. They allow you to build a web page in a visually oriented, drag-and-drop way, but in order to make that work they are generating tons of code behind the scenes, code which in most cases you never need to look at, much less understand.

In contrast, WordPress does not have a visual, drag-and-drop front end for building custom themes. The only way to do it is by writing the code yourself. And that requires a fairly thorough understanding of CSS, and tricky things like the box model, floats, and cascade specificity that can be challenging even for experienced web designers. If you look at the “How-To and Troubleshooting” section of this forum, you will see that a great many of the questions being asked are not really WordPress questions at all, but rather CSS questions from people who are trying to customize their themes.

Then of course there is PHP, which is the code that fetches your content out of the WordPress database, and plugs it into your theme templates. And the PHP code for a custom WordPress theme must also be written by hand (in fact, that is what most of the Codex is about — documenting the many PHP functions that are used within WordPress themes). Not that it is terribly difficult to learn — as programming languages go, PHP is one of the most forgiving — but it requires a very different mindset for someone accustomed to working with code generators.

I do not mean to discourage you or anyone else by saying these things. New people learn how to use these technologies every day; it is a worthwhile investment that can pay big dividends in the long run. But I also feel you deserve to be given realistic expectations as to what you are getting into, so you can put yourself in the proper mindset, and allow enough time in your schedule for the learning to take place.

Going by your replies…know wonder you wasted 2 weeks.

Build a bridge