SECURITY, default install POOR (User name displayed on Hello World post)

  • Resolved AshokanKid

    (@ashokankid)


    9 years, 2 months ago

    I think it is a ridiculous travesty of security that upon creating a new WP site (in 2015), the default install instantly creates a Hello World sample blog post WITH the site creators user name (probably the admin, regardless if the name is different) RIGHT THERE for ALL hackers to see~!

    First of all, WP has been around for long enough that I don’t think that we even need a (silly?) sample blog post anyway (though perhaps some do?). At the very least, the default should be to hide the authors name rather than post for the entire world to see the site creators name immediately upon creation.

    In fact, since the sample Hello World post is there SPECIFICALLY for the newbie user (not necessarily security savvy, yet?), wouldn’t it be better for the default install (from a security perspective) to have a generic (or better yet, no) author name displayed?

    Personally I would prefer no sample blog post at all, but if one must be created in the default install, at the very least inform the newbie user (yeah, that might mean ME) that the default post IS going to display their log in name for ALL hackers to begin attempting to get into your site by using.

    Background; I’ve been using WP for a while (years) since jumping ship on Drupal based sites and recently have seen our sites hacking attempts jump in frequency considerably. One new site that I created got hit almost instantly and I was confused as to how they had discovered and were using my log in name (we never use “admin”).

    Most of our sites are not blogs and so I rarely give the blog portion a glance until much further along in development. Though of course now the FIRST thing that I will do is turn the silly Hello World post into a draft so that it is not even visible. When I did look at the Hello World post it was immediately obvious how the hackers knew my log in name right away. Unbelievable in our security conscious 2015?

    I’ve learned from this. How about our WP devs? Please?

Viewing 10 replies - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
  • Moderator Jan Dembowski

    (@jdembowski)

    Forum Moderator and Brute Squad

    This comes up a lot and rather than rehash why usernames flat out do not matter are all for security (and never has) please give this a read.

    https://www.ads-software.com/support/topic/wp-431-still-allows-visibility-of-admin-usernames?replies=13&view=all#post-7439848

    Or if you’d like, give this a read.

    https://www.ads-software.com/support/topic/scanning-for-author-and-failed-login-attempt?replies=11&view=all#post-6932129

    For the latest really good reply from someone else, you can leap ahead and just try this one at the end.

    https://www.ads-software.com/support/topic/wp-431-still-allows-visibility-of-admin-usernames?replies=13&view=all#post-7443969

    Thread Starter AshokanKid

    (@ashokankid)

    Yes, I totally get and understand the “best practices” approach as well as ongoing security awareness, monitoring and updating continually.

    And certainly, user names (hidden) is not actually “security” as such. BUT, again, for a brand new installation to show, by default, the newbie, brand new WP user log-in name immediately on install just seems crazy.

    Drupal (by comparison) does not even create / enable a blog by default and certainly does not create a users “sample post”. That would be ridiculous.

    WP has matured way past the childish Hello World stage, in my humble opinion and the default install should not contain an instant, immediate post outing the installers log in user name. That should be a choice, not a default.

    Whether WP is now being updated for seasoned developers (who really don’t need a sample post, please & thank-you) or for the newbie, first time user (who may be security clueless), the Hello World sample post has long outlived it’s time.

    How many new WP installers cruise the forums looking for information & discussion tagged “security” before creating their exciting new WP site? Wonderful that there is (and has been) lengthy discussion on this same topic, past and ongoing, but how about simply ditching the Hello World silliness now?!?!

    Moderator Jan Dembowski

    (@jdembowski)

    Forum Moderator and Brute Squad

    Yes, I totally get and understand the “best practices” approach as well as ongoing security awareness, monitoring and updating continually.

    That’s a relief. ??

    Drupal (by comparison) does not even create / enable a blog by default and certainly does not create a users “sample post”. That would be ridiculous.

    Then people would get posts not found messages when they visit their new site. When they delete the default post and get that message they come to these forums. What can you do, a default is just that can can be deleted.

    How many new WP installers cruise the forums looking for information & discussion tagged “security” before creating their exciting new WP site? Wonderful that there is (and has been) lengthy discussion on this same topic, past and ongoing, but how about simply ditching the Hello World silliness now?!?!

    *Thinks about that, the “security” part*

    Out of the 7 million or so posts in these forums maybe… 10? Being generous… 20? 25? Let’s say 100 posts are like that in these forums.

    Security by obscurity, and that’s what going to lengths to hide your username, by itself is worthless. It always has always been, it’s got no security value. If you cannot protect it then it’s not part of security.

    See that I made “by itself” bolded? You can hide the usernames as part of a security strategy but it’s just “make work”. It adds very little value if any. Your user ID like your email address is too well known and too difficult to reasonably expect to stay hidden.

    This is why Google, Facebook, Twitter and many others do not bother to hide the username. That’s not where the security is, it’s somewhere else.

    Thread Starter AshokanKid

    (@ashokankid)

    Hiding the user name as a security measure is not at all what we are talking about here. Having a fresh install create a sample post with the newly created “admin” user name exactly as the user typed it into the install is just not a great way to start.

    I get the feeling that I am not swimming in the right pool here. We want WP to be easy for a newbie user who for some reason in 2015 cannot figure out why their newly created blog has no posts yet (HUH?).

    And yet at the same time, that sample post that the newbie somehow needs just so that they know that their blog is working (yeaay!) has the installers user name (who is also the admin) published as the author instantly and immediately by default.

    Yeah, yeah, I know, user obscurity is not security, but for anyone wanting a truly secure blog / site, they just MIGHT want to create a user(s) name for blog posting (Author) and another for admin purposes, each with commensurate privileges (WHAT a concept!).

    My comment is that the chosen ADMIN name is posted immediately, publicly by default. Not just any user / author, but the ADMIN / installer of the site. Again, I’m here swimming in the wrong pool, I can tell. ??

    Oh well… I tried.

    P.S. We can talk all day about user name obscurity not being “security” and that user names is how WP, eBay, Amazon, Google and on and on and on is how the site identifies the user, but these are USERS, and not ADMINS and I’ll bet you’ll never see a Google or Amazon admin name posted anywhere.
    Default install – sample post – admin user name posted immediately by default – poor security right off the bat

    It sounds like WP does not consider hiding the username important so nothing will be done to change this. Ok.

    Did you know you can also find the username as well as the nickname by viewing the source code? View yours and search the page, you’ll find both there. Easy.

    Having just spent 4.5 hours cleaning up 4 blogs that had been hacked — all with “strong” passwords by WP standards — I do not understand the notion that handing out 50% of the login info doesn’t matter.

    Mind you, I don’t think the username is how they got in, I think it was a plugin or the theme on one of the blogs that needed a recent update (i’m usually pretty good about updating but missed one).

    Still, I don’t want to go through this again. With all the talk about “do everything you can to protect your site”… then give away the username… this makes no sense to me.

    Moderator Samuel Wood (Otto)

    (@otto42)

    www.ads-software.com Admin

    I do not understand the notion that handing out 50% of the login info doesn’t matter.

    Google and Facebook don’t have usernames at all. You log in using your email address as the account identifier.

    Every person you’ve ever emailed, every spammer out there, they all know your email address.

    Is it your opinion that Google and Facebook are insecure because of this fact?

    Your username is an account identifier. Nothing more. It is not a secret code. Use better passwords.

    Good points. I’m still not completely convinced. WP is not Google or FB and I don’t have a high paid team working round the clock to protect my site… I have used KeyScrambler and LastPass password manager for years which creates my 24 digit passwords. WP says my passwords are strong. We’ll just carry on! ??

    Thread Starter AshokanKid

    (@ashokankid)

    Wow, come on folks, READ the thread from the FIRST post, please?

    I did not create this thread to discuss common user name obfuscation and hear people yammer on about Facebook & Google & Yahoo (and every other web site) not “hiding” user names / log in email address credentials.

    This is about a brand new installation of a web site / blog that INSTANTLY publishes for ALL of the world to see (Hello World) the SITE CREATOR / ADMIN user name upon DEFAULT INSTALL immediately as the very first post.

    Imagine if you will, the CREATORS of let us say Facebook or Amazon, etc., contracting to someone writing code for their brand new web site and then immediately upon creation, going live on-line, the SITE ADMIN log in credentials are immediately displayed on a post that states boldly, Hello World?!?!?

    L U D I C R O U S ?

    Apparently not for WordPress this is not ludicrous, this is standard operating procedure, even now in 2015 when security concerns are at an all time high. Again, not just any user name, the SITE CREATOR / ADMIN name by DEFAULT, instantly and mediately upon the site going live.

    Now that I am savvy to this, the very fist thing that I now do upon install is to change / add a nickname to my account and select that as the published / shown name. This is fine now that I have been burned by seeing multiple brute force password guessing attacks by those using my ADMIN name (not admin, of course).

    HOW did they even FIND my Admin name so easily and quickly?!?!? We NEVER use admin as an Admin “user name”. Ohhh, DOH, it is because WordPress INSTANTLY publishes my AMDIN / log in credentials by DEFAULT right upon site creation / going live on the internet. BRILLIANT~!

    Now, again, for those commenting about email addresses (as log in names) being “public knowledge” and so being available to anyone who has your email address; Not sure about anyone else (site managers / admins), but I own more than 5 email addresses (more like 10 or 20) that are used for various purposes and NEVER use my public email address as ANY site Admin log in, ever.

    Besides that, please go forth and see if you can find ANY admin user name log in credential for ANY high profile site like; Google, Yahoo, Amazon, eBay, Facebook and on and on and on. Go on, I dare you, and when you DO find an ADMIN user name / log in credential for ANY high profile web site, publish it here just for fun.

    Good luck with that last exercise. ??

    NOT about common user names folks, this is about the main, initial SITE CREATOR / ADMIN user credentials published BY DEFAULT instantly and immediately to say Hello World, use THESE credentials to hack my site right NOW because THIS is not just any common user, this is the ADMIN of this site!

    SC

    Moderator Jan Dembowski

    (@jdembowski)

    Forum Moderator and Brute Squad

    OK. I’ve read this post and I’m closing this topic. It’s just not productive any more and yes, we’ve all read your first post.

    This really and truly sums up your point.

    NOT about common user names folks, this is about the main, initial SITE CREATOR / ADMIN user credentials published BY DEFAULT instantly and immediately to say Hello World, use THESE credentials to hack my site right NOW because THIS is not just any common user, this is the ADMIN of this site!

    I’ve added emphasis.

    That’s caused by 2 things. One, a default post makes sense. When people see their installation they don’t want to see the “No post found” error message.

    You don’t like that. That’s understood.

    Second part is that usernames including an admin is never obscured. See the part about “initial SITE CREATOR / ADMIN user credentials”? That’s why we’re all discussing about how hiding your user ID even an admin is pointless. It’s why this whole topic went the way it did.

    I’m closing this topic now.

    Moderator Samuel Wood (Otto)

    (@otto42)

    www.ads-software.com Admin

    this is about the main, initial SITE CREATOR / ADMIN user credentials published BY DEFAULT instantly

    Just adding this: A username is not “credentials”. Credentials are the combination of username and the password. Knowing your username gives an attacker no useful information they need, since they need your password to log in. Additionally, there’s half a dozen different ways to find out usernames, including but not limited to simply reading the blog name.

    My username on my blog is “otto”. Best of luck to you.

Viewing 10 replies - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
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