The Google thing – not discussed here?! [CLOSED]

@orangeguru: That’s why we need to wait for Matt to come back from his vacation and see what he has to say. Nothing anyone says now will answer what his intentions were. No point in arguing or posting anything till he comes back.

I bet your medicine chest and pantry are pretty bare, too, AWH. I sure hope you don’t use any Gillette products. Or any other products, goods or services manufactured by a company comprised of unscrupulous boards of directors engaging in dishonest practices. That would just about cover every major corporation in America and quite a few overseas. Makes shopping a breeze, I bet.

Point is, unless it’s some blatant wrongdoing, a la Gillette or Halliburton, I generally don’t give a crap about the company’s politics as long as they are providing a service I desire or require at a price I can afford. Unless they are denuding rainforests, tormenting monkeys and rabbits, selling children into slavery or slaughtering goats on the Sabbath, I just don’t really care.

But the beauty of all this, AWH, is that you are free to do as you wish. As it should be, as it should be.

@nuclearmoose: ‘business move’ – thanks for your feedback.

I am just wondering if there is a good way to organize a non-profit organisation around this project? Especially to deal with income and seperate it from any commerical WordPress enterprise.

I am not sure – aren’t there several OS projects that have a commerical and a non-profit side?

More and more I see this whole affairs as growing pains of an excellent and succesful project?

><I>by presuming to know what is in Matt’s or anyone else’s head</I>

Your association, not mine.

It’s clear what was in the minds of the people responsible…and it’s clear why wp users were brought in as part of the dirt.

Let’s lay this out for anyone not up to speed on the details.

Indirectly, WordPress installs are being used to spam Google.

That’s you, jonimueller…you’re an ‘internet spammer’ – a digital bottom-feeder – a leach on the resources of mankind, forced to write bad checks and talk dirty in church.

It didn’t take much to turn you out…put you to work on the streets…use you up…use you…and you did all the work:

1.) Joe Blogger’s site has pagerank. ‘pagerank’ means it shows up in the top 5 or 10 or 25 hits per it’s subject matter when Google is searched on that subject matter.

2.) Joe Blogger has WordPress installed. WordPress installs, by default, links to the www.ads-software.com site.

3.) Joe blogger’s site passes pagerank to WordPress.

4.) WordPress hosts spam.

#2 in this little schema is the kicker…you participated in spamming the ‘net and you didn’t even know about it.

Now you want to defend the people that laughed behind your back and profited from your work.

How’s it feel, knowing you’re rubbing kneecaps with spammers….you’re one of them now. They make the money tho, and you spend yours to help them. What a deal…want to lend me some?

Tell your friends when they complain about spam and how bad it is that you’re the reason they can’t get work done and you’re the one pushing law office pop-ups and viagra and fake credentials…you can explain to them, face to face what’s in your head, and how you didn’t know.

I’m sure they’ll still want to be friends…maybe. But they won’t come around to your wp site any longer – that’s what’s in their heads.
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@orangeguru,

You make some very valid points. I’m not going to sit here and defend Matt or defend WordPress from criticism. When done constructively, it’s very effective, and indeed, it’s even necessary at times.

What follows is a not a heated rant. It’s a narrative, so please, everyone, take it as such. I’m not here to attack anybody.

Today I found this out the same as many others did. I was not, nor every have been, privy to how WordPress and the WordPress web sites are managed and run. I have helped to build a community. I will defend that, and when the support forums start to degenerate into flame wars over events and issues for which we have only sketchy information, I’m going to stand up and ensure that people coming here looking for support get it. That’s my role. My investment in this project is right here. I’ve never coded a single line. I don’t have any personal ownership over that aspect of WordPress, but as I’ve said, I have ownership over this small portion of the WordPress-osphere.

It’s not fair to say that anyone has “been very naughty” when we don’t know all the facts. I certainly don’t hold anything said on /. to be of consequence, either. Look at the juvenile ravings of many /. posters; it’s become a forum for idiocy at times. That’s precisely what I want to prevent from happening here.

I’m not interested in polarizing this community. I’m interested in serving its best interests. I will wait and try to gather as much factual information as I can find and then I will have something to say, along with the rest of you.

Until that time, I will continue to act as I best see fit, in the interest of having an effective support forum.

@lawtai: Hmmm. As you already can see some people are ‘doing something’ about this’ – just because of the advertising links themselves or because their trust is shattered.

I truely believe that this threat will help people to decide what they want to do – if they have strong feelings about it.

The deciding factor will not be what Matt has to say – but how the matter is handled and if we as a community can cope with this and react to this unhappy event. Matt has done ‘his part’ – the story is out, some people are hurt or turned off by this.

If I may make a bad analogy here: When someone just got hurt or was shocked by something you just don’t stand there silent and wait for Doctor Matt to arrive. No, you will engage that person and go thru that ‘moment’ together – even when it is ‘not your pain’ …

That is the very essence of a community – that you share the good and the bad. Most of you support gurus here usually ‘hold hands’ when people go bonkers over browser errors or a damaged script. This is the very same thing.

@nuclearmoose

Thanks for that long response.

Well in some strange way WordPress gets haunted by the very brutal mechanism called blogging it so well supports. ??

So far I have to see an internet forum without any (personal) fights. I guess it’s a human thing – nothing a moose should be to concerned about.

kmtcn: your outlink to waxy through the wp-specific linkage on your site shows pretty much where you “live”, I think. It is only necessary to link to the support forum here instead of offsite in order to “wait” on a determination.

And when other arguments fail, the name calling starts (e.g., bottom feeder, leech, hot-check writer). He’s gonna get the BENDS from such a quick descent.

Yes, but going along with your analogy, “Doctor Matt” was the one who “hurt” you, which is why it involves him telling us what he was doing. heh that’s why it was a bad analogy I’m guessing ??

As for the people ‘doing something’ they’re doing something without knowing all the facts. Yes, it is their right to not use WP, or disagree/agree with what happened, but like NuclearMoose says, there’s no reason for people to be flaming back and forth.

@lawtai: I said it was bad …

In the case of Doctor Matt – I actually don’t care much about the hidden links and such. I care about WordPress.

If the site needs money, then something needs to be done about it. Doctor Matt certainly tried one remedy, but the patient is currently sufferings some bad side effects: like anger, loss of trust and belief in the Doctor himself.

I am pretty sure that there should be a mixture that keeps everyone alive and happy.

You guys are insane. How is this hurting us? How?! Because our blogs link to www.ads-software.com which just so happens to link to some ad sites? How does that hurt us? How does that hurt anyone?! Good lord! You’re insane, kmtcn. Do you link to any sites that have ad banners? It’s the same thing!

Obviously, you’ve never done an ounce of volunteer work in your life. For all Matt has done, he deserves to earn money in whatever way possible. We’re at least fortunate the he chose a way that does not impact us. With all his knowledge of WP, he could have very easily become a comment spammer. So sit down, chill out, and let an honest man earn honest money. Or, are you opposed to ad banners too?

macmanx:

That is perhaps the most ignorant thing I’ve read on this entire thread, which I have been keeping up with as it unfolds. If you don’t understand the technical details about how PageRank works and how your site fits into the mold, avoid saying that the issue doesn’t affect anybody. In fact, don’t say anything at all because you’re only serving to help the flaming rumors spread by making those who are mad even more so.

The technical details about how pagerank works make this nasty. A site with a banner ad is MUCH different than a linkfarm. This DOES hurt things. This is the crap that causes what you see when you search google and find sites that have little to do with what you searched for. The fact that your blog makes WP’s site have a high pagerank and WP in turn links other sites causes this. It IS against Google rules and it is NOT an ethical way to make money because of all of that. Something like AdSense or most other usual ad services is just fine. I’d support that 100% if I saw it on any OSS project’s site. We all need a little money here and there. However, abusing the ‘net ain’t cool in my books. Abusing PageRank lands this in the same category as the spammers who keep abusing my blog’s comments.

Those problems are real. I agree that we need some explination before anything can really matter, but nothing is going to change what’s been done already. I don’t know much about Matt or the WP team, but I hope this doesn’t permanently cause distaste among the bloggers around the world. I’d hate for a reputation that WP is some kind of spam engine.

I think that organization and a real response will help this out a lot. Poor Matt when he gets back ?? This reminds me of Wendy’s and the finger thing. Everyboody around town talks about how they don’t want to eat there because of it, even though the chances of something bad happening are next to nothing. The company didn’t really respond to the problem, and that caused more problems. I believe that if Dave Thomas were still around and running the company, he would have done something insane like liquidating the stock of chili and switching suppliers. Instead they pointed fingers and placed blame away from themselves without doing anything about the issue.

I smell some MT loyalist trolls in here. Begone heathen dogs.

This reminds me of Wendy’s and the finger thing. Everyboody around town talks about how they don’t want to eat there because of it, even though the chances of something bad happening are next to nothing.

And the parking lots and drive throughs are still pretty full I notice. At least here in amoral ole Houston, Texas!