The template system is horrible.

Yes, I knew I would get lectured about not learning CSS. I know a little bit, like what you need for taking underlines off links and coloring the scrollbar, but separating the CSS file from the HTML is too confusing to me so I will try duches77’s suggestion and if I can’t get on with that go back to Blogger. I just wish Blogger had a Links Manager built in to let me manage my blogroll but maybe that’s the price I have to pay for being able to make my own template.

I know a little bit, like what you need for taking underlines off links and coloring the scrollbar, but separating the CSS file from the HTML is too confusing to me…

Why? This is an honest question. HTML for structure, CSS for presentation: how is this more confusing than mashing them together?

THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
A zillion CSS tags makes WordPress less difficult to style, because you have more precision, a more precise way to identify the elements of the page.
On the other hand, there are content systems that have no CSS at all. Just take a look at PHP Nuke. Go ahead and view the source of that page and tell me if you think less CSS is easier.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL AND I’VE ACTUALLY BEEN THROUGH THAT SOURCE CODE.

To Millennium: I just find it easier to work on one file than two. It makes more sense to me to have one file for a template instead of two. In Blogger you can just paste your template HTML into the editing page, republish and it’s done. You can use as much or as little CSS as you like. I’m not saying that’s how WordPress should be because you obviously really like your system, it’s just not for me.
I’ve also seen some threads about how you can’t use tables with WordPress. So thanks for all your help but I am going to stay with Blogger and use Blogrolling to manage my links. Sorry for wasting everyone’s time ??

You can use tables with WP. It’s just not “recommended”. I’m sorry that your experience did not turn out as planned. ??

To Millennium: I just find it easier to work on one file than two. It makes more sense to me to have one file for a template instead of two. In Blogger you can just paste your template HTML into the editing page, republish and it’s done.

What are you talking about? Despite the fact that the “template” is HTML, that’s really a misnomer. You only need to work on one file to alter the look of your site unless you’re really doing something drastic: the CSS. Leave the HTML alone; you don’t need to edit it unless you’re using plug-ins or have some kind of fundamental design change to make, and even if you have a fundamental design change there are pre-made HTML “templates” for the most common patterns.

Primarily, editing index.php shouldn’t really be about the design at all, it and any other html should only really be edited if you want to alter the content. Your content can then be styled via your css. If you’re editing your index.php in order to provide extra/different hooks for your css (3 column layouts etc) then that’s fine but to me that implies you have enough knowledge of css in the first place to justify needing those changes.
It does kind of irritate me when so many people moan about WordPress being difficult to style, it’s not WordPress at all. Admittedly a person may find css tricky at first but it’s not WordPress’ fault, WordPress tries to do things properly, once you grasp the principles of css then it becomes much easier than the non-css equivelant, although as with anything the more you practise the more you learn and the better you get at it.
Similarly when people say that you can’t use tables with wordpress, that’s rubbish, you can use what you want. Why should WordPress deliberately degrade itself in order to propogate backwards methods of doing things? Having the css in a seperate file is how it should be, for one it makes offering multiple styles much easier.
It strikes me as odd that so many people want to use WordPress but don’t want to bother learning the basics of how to use the fundamental tools and practices that it utilises (I’m not implying people learn php or anything that drastic). If someone doesn’t want to use css or “proper” html then as previously stated there are other solutions (like blogger), if you want the advanced functions of WordPress surely it’s worth putting a small bit of effort into learning how to get the most from it? And of course css isn’t just for wordpress, it will help someone to build the rest of their site as well.
Rant over.

I think that if you spent a weekend (or even two hours a night for a week, one hour a night for two weeks, etc.) reading online tutorials/articles on CSS and playing around with wp-layout.css for your test blog, you would know more than enough CSS to style your wp blog however you wish. You will have also accumulated an additional skill.
The best thing about learning these days is that when you run into problems you can’t solve yourself there are hundreds of experts on various forums willing to help you out.

And I might have missed out a couple but I am sure it wasn’t a zillion. No way ??

Um.
1. Chmod (“change permissions”) index.php to 777 (also known as “drwxrwxrwx”).
2. Take styles out of .css, put in style tags in index.php.
3. Save.
Now editable through template manager, just like Blogger.
What’s hard to get there? ??

if you thing styling wordpress is hard, try drupal or expression engine
i personally am gratefully for the simplicity of wordpress and the abundance to open source wp-ready stylesheets (alex king’s repository and style switcher for example). with other blogging or cms tools, you are lucky if you get a few skins/themes/styles.
having so many ready to go really makes it easier to understand both css styling for the novice, and the structure of index.php. really … even if you’re intimidated by css, just try some styles– compare them, and read the code. you can learn a lot this way, and it’s more fun than your typical css tutorial… the logic of classes applied to wordpress elements is already there — all you have to do is tinker, browser-test and validate:>)
as said above, you needn’t mess with the html or php! be grateful for this — many tools feign separation of style and content but then blur this.

huh, interesting points made about open source style collaboration here:
https://www.atthe404.com/blog/index.php?p=142
i think i follow but some of the fine points escape me.
still while it may be true that you need to tweak the index to really customize your blog’s design, my point remains that you don’t have to get something quite personal up and running.
hell if ur too lazy to mess around cough it up and pay somebody else to like blogmoxie.com
what’s better about mt’s templating btw?

Okay, I’ve used MoveableType for close to three years. I’ve written plugins for MT. I’ve tweaked and tortured MT. I *know* MT, okay?
In less than a month, I learned more about WordPress and created more for it than I did in three *years* working with MT. How? Simple. It makes *sense*! The templates and plugins actually make *sense* internally to the code. MT always was trying to hide that stuff and make it hard to find and figure out the backend process that made it run. That’s the downside of corporate development. They were trying to protect their investment.
Sorry, but WP is a dream to use thanks to the ease with which I can modify it and change the look-and-feel with a few simple changes in the stylesheet. (And, yes, if you don’t know stylesheets yet, you have no idea what you’re missing! Oh, the ease with which I can now control my entire site!)
*ahem* Sorry, just had to get that out.
I feel better now.
Thanks,
Jim aka Magus