UL and LI

I agree with antifuse. It’s silly to argue that WordPress should be making things easy for people who can’t be bothered to master CSS and code to web standards. It’s an elite blogtool for elite users, and I applaud the devs for keeping it that way.

I had some lists lingering around my site that I was too busy (LAZY) to convert to semantically correct lists. I figured I posted to this topic so I better get in gear and at least practice what I was preaching. I easily changed things to lists and styled them with CSS. I have quite a few that you couldn’t tell are lists unless you look at the code. ??

@anonymous,
“Elite blogtool” my big hairy moose @ss, dude. It’s not for everybody, but it’s not a tool for übergeeks. It’s a tool that is both sophisticated enough for lots of development possibilities and simple enough that people with a modest level of computer skills can install and run.

Yeah, maybe it was stretching it to say ‘elite’. It’s not unusual to be able to code to web standards and be able to handle PHP and mySQL. This is the basic skill level that WordPress requires. What I’m applauding the devs for is not dumbing it down so any stupid little teenybopper with no coding knowledge can use it, unlike, say Movable Type.

Anon,
Ah, I see. Cool.

Mike,
Thanks for the resource…that is some very cool stuff.
-Rob

Yeah Mike! Very, VERY good site to link to in this discussion!
I’m actually thinking of dropping back a bit from my rounded tabs (www.chait.net), and moving back to non-graphical css tabs to simplify the styling… They have some great examples of doing cool stuff without the need for the sliding-doors-graphics approaches…
-d

Anonymous, I suspect you’re trolling, but giving you the benefit of the doubt I think it’s completely false that you need to know PHP, SQL, or even good XHTML to use WordPress. If you continue to post the way you have been under an anonymous account I’m going to moderate your posts as trolls. If you have something constructive to offer, maybe you should think of a better way to phrase it.
Next, to clear a few things up. First, this discussion started around the use of an unordered list for the menu in the admin area. 99.9% of users are never going to change anything in wp-admin, much less look at the code, so I don’t see why it’s particularly relevant why we code one way or another.
Why is it coded the way it is? It’s practical as well as political. WordPress is centered around a number of beliefs. One of these is that the application should follow widely accepted web standards. Second is that the administration should be accesible to everyone, be it someone with a screen reader or on a text browser like Lynx. Don’t think this will never apply to you just because your vision is fine and you always browse graphically. Have you ever posted from a handheld device? Think you might in the future? The way the code is structured it’s pretty easy. We don’t rely on javascript for basic tasks, there aren’t useless images everywhere, etc.
In addition to everything I’ve just said, there are some fiercely practical reasons the administration interface is XHTML/CSS. It’s fast. Really. Most pages are only a few K, loading extremely fast even on slow connections. Having the menu as an unordered list makes it a lot easier to style things like we do, and adds a lot of flexibility if anyone wants to make alternate stylesheets. The menu *could* be images without changing one lick of the markup. The link mike offered is a great example of some of the things that can be done to lists just by changing the CSS. Doing similar effects with images and javascript would take longer and be slower to load and execute.
As has been said before, the better the markup is, the easier it is to style things. The more it can be leveraged. The cleaner things are when you need to make changes later. Sure there are poli-philosophical reasons for using web standards, but if those don’t float your boat there are hundreds of practical reasons to use them. Ask Wired, Fast Company, ESPN, PGA…

*claps for allusion’s reply*
I look forward to Anoymous coming forward, and showing his/her coward face to the WordPress crowd. If you have negative comments, or suggestions be sure to let us know who you are.

@anonymous: Well, well, hiding behind anonymity makes it easy to word up like this, right? People cheering for the elite-ness of a tool by talking about “stupid little teenyboppers with no coding knowledge” seem to forget that they once also were exactly that. Oh, yes, sure… you’ve been born with all the knowledge you have now.
WordPress is very far from being an elite tool. It’s an excellent tool, not only because it’s usable also for not-so-experienced users, but also for it’s standard compliance. That’s something that seems to have become very unpopular nowadays. But these features make WordPress being different from “yet-another-blogging-solution”.
Personally I appreciate very much the work that is being done for WordPress. There are many things that would be nice to have in WordPress, and some things that need improvement. And I try to contribute to that where possible.
If you are willing to help in a useful way I’m sure you’ll soon recognize that WordPress has a great community with people helping each other (no matter if experienced or not). But if you decide to keep trolling the way you did up to now, I suggest you should consider to silently move away and stop wasting our time.
Just my 0.02$.

I agree with another member’s point, applaud the devs for what they’re doing, make some remarks about CSS and get accused of being a troll, a coward, and told to silently move away and stop wasting your time.
And then you get uppity because I dare to mention the word ‘elite’?! Because let’s face it, your not the most welcoming community I’ve ever come across ??
If I offended anyone with my comments I apologise. Sometimes my opinions are too forthright – I prefer to call them ‘honest’ – for some people to handle. WordPress is a great tool. Just because you get a lot of other people whining on here, please don’t assume that every single new poster is out to get you.

May I respectfully suggest that if comments are going to be judged by whether or not the poster is anonymous, anonymous posting be disabled on this forum? I’ve seen a lot of anonymous posts on this forum so I assumed it was ok – but if that’s not the case it would be fairer to new users to force them to register.

Will,
Just to clarify…in case it’s necessary…I just feel that someone who anonymously posts several “argumentative” items seems to be hiding behind the anonymity. Anonymous posting is perfectly okay, and I think it should be an option.

WTF is this? Judge Judy?
“Next on Springer – HTML Geeks gone wild!!”.
Jeeze let it rest already.

HTML Geeks Gone Wild? Snoop Dogg edition? ??
Anonymous posting is allowed to make the barrier as low as possible for people looking for support. If you want to contribute to the development of WordPress and make criticisms, it’s best to register an account like OrbitJuice has done.