MKSnMKS

Hi Zach W,

Yes it does look like the image you show.
Did your example use two categories, or two subcategories, or one of each, and which one was which?

It is also confusing that “sub”categories, are also included in the categories column – there could be a separate column for sub-categories.

So re

Is there some way that the categories column, in the general Product List view, can be made to distinguish between categories and subcategories, and which category a subcategory is a subcategory of?

If this is not presently possible, then would you consider incorporating this as a feature request?

Is it possible to request a feature for some method of distinguishing between categories and subcategories, such as say font colour and/or style, possibly “;” to signify the following are subcategories of the preceding category and “.” is the end of a subcategory list, or separate column for subcategories, or ‘hover over’ as subcategory to be shown what category it is a member of (or further details), or any other method that might be suitable?

Thank you

Hi AmpForWP,

Thank you for fixing the problem.
Please let me know when you have the updated version available for installation via the www.ads-software.com plugin site, or WordPress plugin install system, and then I will install it for testing. This will also help to check that it installs without problems, during ordinary use.

Thank you

Hi Zach W,

Thanks for getting back to me.

1) re

can you let me know if this is mainly because you have the same names for categories and subcategories?

Yes we do use the some of the same names for categories and sub categories.
Not in all names, but for some.
But this is not the main problem; the main problem is that there is no way to what is a category, and what is a subcategory, anyway (whatever their names happen to be).

2) re

Could you provide a bit more detail and possibly a screenshot or two outlining the issue?

2a) More Detail
Our work around has been to put a “-” before the name of a subcategory, so we know it is a subcategory, but even then the column display does not show what it is a subcategory of.
for each product, all its categories and subcategories are listed with comma separation, with no visual distinction between categories, subcategories, and which category a sub category belongs to.
2b) I don’t know how to attach screenshots to a forum comment.
But anyway, the column would look something like;

Cat A,CatB,S
ubCatA1,CatC
,CatD

In this example, we can see what the subcategory is because it has an obvious name. But we can also see that there is no formatting to help highlight the difference, nor to connect a subcategory with its main category.

Note of additional feature;
It would also be handy to be able to edit the contents of this column, while in the list screen, rather than to have to open each individual product full page to add or remove it from some categories or subcategories.
Presently this can be done by exporting, manipulate in spreadsheet, then import, but that is a long winded way to do something which might be imagined to be easy enough to do in the list (just as it is easy to do in the spreadsheet column).

I hope that helps improve an understanding of the matter.

Thanks

Hi AmpForWP,

By “Development Process”, I meant what your plugin team does to develop the plugin.
Your development process clearly involves work at other websites such as github.com and magazine3.com, as well as your activities on this website www.ads-software.com.

I am happy to be involved in this process, but only what can be done via this www.ads-software.com website.

The guidelines that you refer to for this www.ads-software.com website are satisfactory for us, and keeping activity to this site means we do not need to acquaint ourselves with other sites, systems, methods, etc.

We are happy to download through this site, and provide feedback and suggestions through this site.

If we start getting involved in other websites, then we can very quickly end up being all over the place, trying to keep up with each matter we are involved with.
We are not so enthusiastic to be dealing with many bookmarks for sites, logins, etc, and methods of keeping track of progress.

I understand that it is the norm for the developers to be the ones who have chosen how they want to interact with beta test users. But there are probably other ‘would be’ beta test users out there, that would be involved, if there were more favourable options for them to get involved (easy, more reliable on safety/security, no extra stuff to learn, familiar feedback system, etc).
You may take what I have said here as a kind of user feedback on developer systems.

I have tried to think of some ways that this might be possible.
And as a plugin developer team, you might be able to tell me how we can work together via this www.ads-software.com website to test your beta plugin.

Thank you for your assistance.

Hi AmpForWP,

I am not sure why you can provide only limited support here,
but I am not keen to start getting involved in off-site locations.

As far as downloads or install methods go, I remind you of ;
I would consider being part of the development process, re user testing, but limit any downloads or introduced code to what originates from this www.ads-software.com site.

I am happy that you are progressing a solution through your development processes.
But if I am to do a download, I’d really much prefer to do it from this www.ads-software.com site.
I don’t know if it is possible to download your beta file through the main plugin page – If the link is used, then it is still downloading from off-site, wich I do not want to do.
Another option may be to start a new plugin with “Beta-Test” in the name, or possibly appended to the name.
However, if the Beta version uses the same folders and root files as this plugin, the there will be a conflict between the plugin and its beta.
But that is not likely because the plugin is unusable at present, so only the beta would work, then once the beta works the problem is solved and can be applied to the plugin, then the redundant beta uninstalled, and the updated plugin installed.
I have no idea if this is possible, or permitted, but it would certainly add credence to a beta plugin (which carries enough inherent risk anyway).

Please let me know if you come up with anything?

Sorry for taking a while to get back to you, I have been busy.
I will have a look at the beta test link sometime soon.

Thanks

Hi Jason,

Thanks for doing that.
It’s good to know that something which has sat for a while, has actually been of some interest, and use.
I’ve made some other suggestions for PHP Compatibility Checker which you’d be able to search for, mostly for function or improved user interface.

And while chatting.
Thanks for a very useful plugin.
It removed concerns with plugin compatibility, that allowed us to move up from PHP 5.6, all the way through to 7.#. Many problem plugins were identified along the way. The upgrade of PHP, has meant an increase in site speed, better alternatives for caching, improved security, and getting the most out of recent wordpress versions.
There are a great many sites still round about PHP version 5.6 which leaves them vulnerable. But they all choose to stay in that state, because of the risk of damage during the upgrade process. This plugin helps solve some of those concerns that cause ‘reticence to upgrade’.

I have also made suggestions, on how multiple plugin compatibilities ‘could be’ reported, to the benefit of all wordpress users.

From the experience gained from use of this plugin, it should be seriously considered as part of standard practice for PHP upgrades.
And if it is made standard practice, then make that known on this wordpress site.
That way, there would be tools on hand to assist the antiquated technologied websites to upgrade. And assisting the increased robustness of the sites, could be considered to be a good objective, along with the other objectives of this website.
Though that may not happen (at least for a while yet).

I imagine that it is also a good tool to be considered for use as part of a final check process for plugin authors, as it may help indentify less than optimum methods they may have used for handling different PHP versions. So their plugins have a better chance of entering circulation, with less chance of those kinds of errors. (they could even acknowledge “pre-checked by PHP Compatibility Checker” on their plugin site, as compatible with versions #,#,#)

So thank you for the work that you are doing.

Hi Ryan,

Looks like the team for the other plugin are working on some sort of solution;
see
https://www.ads-software.com/support/topic/plugin-amp-for-wp-has-conflict-with-amp-for-wordpress-plugin/

Thanks

Hi Joy,

Thanks for the link, and some implied acknowledgement of importance.

Those folks sure are doing some thinking (may I encourage it).

That ticket seems to be primarily addressing a function to ;

serve plugin checksums for all the files for all plugins from the plugin repository, in all their versions.

That is good for checking that something (e.g. file and folder) is what it is.

What I am talking about is checking that something is not appearing to be something else.
That requires a test for uniqueness.
My suggestion does that by including the author’s name, and date – which have high probabilities of uniqueness.
And if the author’s name is the same, then there are problems,
and if the dates are the same as well as the plugin name and author name being the same, there there should be questions.

In either case;
having satisfied the checks for being correct (e.g. checksum),
there can also be a check for uniqueness.
I have suggested plugin name, author name, and date, for forming some sort of uniqueness test.
Checksum (of the file and folder names) could also be used for uniqueness.

Combining the two, the checksum could also include the other meta data, which is a way of checksum-ing the measure of uniqueness.

A thought for the team at that link is ;
“consider how plugin upgrades can work so as to minimize risk of intervention at the point of update”.
The themes that are ‘spoofing theme name’ (or what ever that process is called), do so at the time of update.
A method to maintain confidence during update is possibly to

Use a coded identifier for a plugin that ;
a) identifies the plugin across all versions
b) indentifies how the next (or group of subsequent) updates will be uniquely identified, so that when an update is declared, the update identifier will match the unique identifier supplied by the previous version (of the same plugin, by the same author, originally created on the same date). This might involve getting issued with a unique identifier, so that the same identifier is not issued to any other author or plugin/theme

This may not fully prevent incorrect updates for a plugin or theme, but what it does do, is eliminate the chance that such an event is an accident.

Also
Joy,
I am not sure what “make” you were meaning, but would this have been the link from that page that you were referring to? ;
https://meta.trac.www.ads-software.com/ticket/619

Thanks

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by MKSnMKS. Reason: added something I forgot to include

Hi ampforwp,

Just to clarify on what I said above;
“I would prefer to continue discussion on this topic, at this “topic.

I would consider being part of the development process, re user testing, but limit any downloads or introduced code to what originates from this www.ads-software.com site.

Thanks

Hi Ryan,

Just to clarify;

The situation being considered is where the plugins are installed at the same time and only one is active(used) at a time.

The situation that is being considered is not where the plugins are being ‘used'(activated) at the same time.

Thanks

Hi,
Thanks for solving this problem so quickly.
I would prefer to continue discussion on this topic, at this topic, to keep the progress in one area, and to stay out of proprietry areas off site.

Assuming the solution is general for all users that would want to have both plugins installed, then I would be happy to test an installation of your improved plugin, by using the standard method of this www.ads-software.com site.

Q) Have you already done a/some tests of having these two plugins installed at the same time?

Thanks

[modlook]
Hi Moderator,

I can’t get back and edit my other related topic (because I my topics are on 72 hour delay) for the other plugin that has this problem.
So could you please make sure that it’s first line reads;
““AMP for WP” plugin has conflict with “AMP for WordPress” plugin.

And then delete this message.

Also of minor problem, is that though the titles were different, the system was preventing me from placing the second topic because it considered them a duplicate.
This is a problem when several plugins (or other items – e.g. themes) all share the same problem.
The same message will do for all, and it just needs to be sent to each party concerned.
But the duplicate detection system, seems to automatically prevent sending the same message, so the user must then customize each message.

Thank you

Hi Folks,

Looks like we are able to toss a few ideas around.
It is looking like this may end up now where,
but at least it hasn’t had the brakes put on it.

Continuing ;

Re my comment on the concept of

Hopefully the developers that “make” a button would not consider it to have been “made – ready for use”, if it does not work, at the time they make use of it on a large website.

And Otto’s concerns with the following examples of detracting factors

a)

People will click the button even when they didn’t want to do that specific thing. Because people are stupid.

(note – some more elderly ones may have had a spasm or coordination problem between looking at the screen and moving the mouse button down, or brain fades after long hours – yep humans! People seldom ask computers what they think of humans.)

b)

We have a button to subscribe to individual plugin forums. People click it and then complain when they get emails, because they don’t understand what “subscribe” means. And then they fail to understand when we tell them to click the “Unsubscribe” button.

c)

There has to be some kind of way to gauge “intent” to the point that we believe that yes, you actually did mean to do that thing, whatever that thing is.

d) and notably

I’m talking about a UI thing, not anything else.

Otto has explained why a button is not a good approach “because it does not work”.
If it does not work, then “is it really made”.
The way to make a button work (well), is to make it so that it solves these problems.
To solve the problem with the buttons (and any process) involves writing text or code, or both. But also hopefully, that will reduce the amount of time needed by staff to manually handle each person’s problem, with time delays.
So re-languaging this situation, is “we need a (something)(to make an improvement), that can overcome the following (reasons why it can not yet be done)”.

These suggestions may or may not help with avoiding some of the concerns ;

d) This is a most important observation to appreciate this circumstance – it is a “User” interface (to the “System” – the other party).

a) For (a), In this case, make use of a confirmation question, prior to committing the change. and have a ‘cancel’ option, just in case they find the confirmation question confusing as well.
Note. also for the elderly, or less coordinated, or poor eye sight users, bigger buttons and fonts for the more critical tasks.

b) For (b), this can often be due to a compounding of two factors;
i) the explanations supplied from the system to the user, at any or all stages of the ‘process the user is going through (being lead by the system?)’.
ii) the way the ‘user reads/senses the system’ or the way the ‘system provides impression/perception/cognizance to the user’ (see note ** below).
This is easily measured by the statement ;

they fail to understand when we tell them

But we can break this down a little;

they fail

this event is conceptually placed in the “them” basket,
with a status of “failure”

to understand

It is them, the did not “understand”.
Perhaps we need to remember that anybody using a computer, to work with a literary and/or technical tool like WordPress, has to have a minimum acceptable level of intelligence. So assuming that not everybody who doesn’t “understand” is inherently incapable of understanding, the we are lead to the question of “why didn’t they understand”?
There is the possibility that perhaps ‘it may not have been clear enough’.
How much ‘enough’ is needed, may be something that would require exploration/experimentation to find out.
But also, if the number of times the same event happens, the more the cause needs to be looked for, and it may not be the assumed cause.
when

we tell them

This is the most important point in this comment.
A scenario is created where you have to tell them (frequently?) by manual means (even if it is a cut and paste from a text file).
So hopefully there could be a button for the “we” to use, assuming that the “we” does not make the same mistakes when pressing a button, like “they” do.
That’s two possible improvements, from that sentence;
– aim for a system that minimises the need for manual response
– where manual response is required, than make the tools as automatic as possible.
But there is also an important lesson that might be learnt (even something for AI), and that is. What is it that the “we tell them”, or ‘how are they told’, or ‘how is it explained to them’, that the system had not done prior to that point, and what makes parts of the additional explanation the difference? (and what still does not make a difference)
Learning what that information is, or learning how to better explain it, then means the the system can then have that improvement built into it as part of the process the user has at the earlier stage.
This is similar to going through FAQs on a website, and categorizing questions/answers together every so often, and convert their content in to “how to” type instructions/pages, so the information becomes more integral and structured (less hap hazard).
Or for a business, it is similar to customer inquiries, after a couple of emails, one may chose to copy and edit the contents of a response, and add it to a web page, to save time for future customers, and free up the business’ staff.

c) For (c) this is similar to (a), confirmation is needed, and, it needs to be good enough to reduce the frequency of mistakes.
Another way to measure a successful outcome, is to result in less time spent manually handling the adverse events.
It must be noted here, that there is/was a button for subscribe.
So at least that has/had a button for that function.
If that button exists, and that problem remains, then the button has not been removed, because of the problem of mis-clicking (and a proportion of manual communications for staff). So this might be, that even though there is a problem, it is considered workable (may be not optimal), rather than ‘should not be done’.
So if the subscribe button remains (which by the sound of it, it may), then the number of incidences of mis-click and manual communications for staff, may be improved by use of a confirmation stage, and providing better explanatory information (prior to the stage of mistake, and ‘at’ the stage of mistake).

If those improvements, are found to work well for that subscribe button, then they may be deemed practical for other buttons, possibly including the button of this topic.

Note ** re subscribe/unsubscribe button.
a) Some options are set by drop down menus in www.ads-software.com.
Others (particularly in WordPress dashboard are set by toggle switches.
These toggel switches are not just a “toggle” switch, because what they (the buttons by the ‘system’) also do, is intuitively ‘display/convey‘ to the ‘user’ that there are ‘two states’ (and what those states are), and they are set in the same place (and do not require going somewhere else to reverse a state).
b) a sure way to connect information to a button (and same for links), is to have a popup box appear that explains, what this exact thing does. And connect it with the button (as in it is part of button coding, to require the explanation text, which may include a link to further information).
c) help may additionally be available through help text on the same page, a downloadable user manual. But the closer at hand the help, the more likely it is to be seen, and therefore more likely to be read (not that that is a 100% all the time).

So there’s a few thoughts, and ways of thinking.
Even if buttons are to not be made so readily available to front end users, some of the hard working staff might appreciate some improvement on the back end (though only they would know – not me).

Hoping some of this is of at least passing interest.

Hi Steve and Otto,

I was locked out.
I just happened to see this at the top of my topics list, without the lock sign so wondered what was going on.
Is there a mistake in the system,
or am I allowed to talk again?

Thanks (I think?)

Hi Otto,

1) Re

We look at the long term. I can make a button to do anything, but will the button work? Will it lead to actual improvements? Or will it lead to more work for our unpaid volunteers?

Managing a volunteer forum with global reach isn’t quite as simple as you might think.

But, bearing in mind the requirements, is it as simple as it could be?

2) Re

Easy automated systems are easy to abuse. A simple button to “do the thing” would lead people to click the button.

That is what makes it easy to use – to report the ads/spam, or other factors (e.g. abusive language)

If you can’t be bothered to make a post, then is your report really all that valuable?

Value of something is not based on how tedious it is.
But consider the corollary , if the action of receiving reports of ads/spam (or any other action) is so important, then why make it so difficult. It is usual to encourage favorable actions by making them easy.

3) Re

I can make a button to do anything, but will the button work?

Hopefully the developers that “make” a button would not consider it to have been “made – ready for use”, if it does not work, at the time they make use of it on a large website.

4) What may be of a high priority is ;

Or will it lead to more work for our unpaid volunteers?

And this may be well worth some attention.
For example, in general, consider all the tedious tasks that the unpaid volunteers do, and consider how they might be automated to assist.
In this case, consider how an increased number of ad/spam reports could be handled more easily.
At first there would be an increase in the number of reports, but then when advertisers and spammers find the game plan has changed, then (hopefully) they will be deterred.

Hi Stephencottontail,

Thank you for clarifying what you had said. What I had said was intended to find the common ground amongst what you and Otto have said, to seek a solution.

You have suggested ;
a) the “mark as” function to make it easier, and
b) the report does not need to be in the posting (whether or not there is a report required), as per ;

There is a ticket for regaining the ability for anyone to add the modlook tag without having to make a post in the thread

Otto has re-iterrated that he considers that
a) a report is required
b) the report must be (it sounds like this is mandatory) placed in the topic forum
c) as little automation as possible should be made available so as to deter the reporting of these matters.
and he effectively adds that a matter of concern is that such ease would lead to an increase in workload for the volunteers (who as I have added above, might enjoy benefits from a similar approach to automation of their own systems, if such improvements are permitted to be imagined).

As determined by Otto ;
a) the “mark as” easy feature is out of the question.
b) there is the present reporting method

and, yet to be finalized,
is your second consideration, of the reporting (which as in b above must be done verbosely) that must be posted in the topic forum.