silverface

joni – your comments are enveloped in the context of one who has had to have some sort of auxiliary-internet world running in order to work on sites. It a case of not trying to understand my stated needs – instead how to force WP to be the solution…when it may not be. This comment:

“With regard to WordPress and its Pages (note the capitalization when used specifically in the context of a WordPress Page, as opposed to a WordPress Post [and not when referring to a web page]), those are static, as opposed to WP Posts, which are linear.”

…I’ve puzzled over for a week. The referenced capitalization means nothing to me, and the rest becomes even more baffling when the parentheses…and brackets…are removed (under the rules of grammar said extraction has to leave a complete sentence). Initially I could only respond to with a blank stare:

“With regard to WordPress and its Pages, those are static, as opposed to WP Posts, which are linear.”

Reading it again, perhaps “Would you repeat that?” would be a better response than none at all, but the issue is now pointless.

Amazingly, some of us have used software for quite some time where we create and edit pages, open them with Safari or Firefox, and if they work THEN we upload them to a server. No “pretend” environment needed. And James, I DID all the reading you suggested, but was told by WP veterans offline that all that mumbo jumbo was fluff – you can get a halfway decent site running in a couple of hours.

If some folks removed the blinders and realized the description of MAMP varies from something separate from WP to an essential part of WP they might realize that the Codex is neither current nor consistnt (read that again – “part of WP”, not something else that is, one discovers, completely unsupported here – even though it’s required.)

Regardless, I did not want to leave this thread, like so many others, open-ended with no answer. A newbie can search this forum for days and find what appears to be an infinite number of questions never fully answered.

However, I had a very astute gentleman read one of my posts, ask some relevant questions, and tell me that WP is really not the right package for my intended use (which had been clearly stated several times. I lost a couple of weeks attempting to force WP’s square peg into a round hole. I suppose the folks trying (in good faith) to help really believe WP is any shape *they* want it to be, despite evidence to the contrary.

Now I’ll be spending my time trying to be absolutely sure I’ve located all the correct fils to delete, hoping in the process WP hasn’t modified others.

It’s been real.

Well – That was the single most useful reply I have received…and you’re the FIRST one to actually understand completely what the site “plan” is. There may be some e-commerce in the future, but in that case I’d call in a professional (both to ensure the code is absolutely correct and for security reasons).

I have a small, basically unused site on a small host that I use mainly for ftp transfers of larger files; the WP suggestion initially came from there, then was reinforced by my old business host (who will only host their creations at enormous fees); then nearly everyone I interacted with re WP stayed on the WP track but gave me suggestions for…well, I guess forcing a square peg into a round holes would be the best analogy.

But after all this time having more of my hair turn gray (but at least not falling out…just the ones I YANKED out!) I CAN see some possibilities – however, your estimate of needing another 2-3 weeks to get it working is almost exactly what I was thinking – yet others said “I can get you up and running in 10 minutes!)

I now see they had NO concept of what I need. Combine that with the (IMO) absolutely chaotic Codex (I still don’t comprehend that a 5-screen document could be “active” but irrelevant and outdated) and books on the subject are useless, being outdated the day of publication (those writers are making a killing, since none of the material is current…so you by another…and another…)

So – while I am not that proficient in NVU/Kompozer (those…actually the same thing…and iWeb are the only site-builders I have), having created pages only by cloning another page, and modded others only by adding items to a menu, changing pics and rewriting text – never actually formatting a page from a blank slate – it sounds now like I really have wasted almost 3 weeks.

Thank you for the advice. I think you’re right on the mark. It’s very disheartening to ALREADY have missed projected deadlines; be in a position (last night) of thinking I was on the right track; being unable to run my local setup at all, apparently killing what I DID have and then learning today that – apparently – no one except ambrosite REALLY tried to understand my needs (which I explained innumerable times in the simplest of terms).

Oh well – I was a communications and English major years ago – and a math-phobic. When I see code, I see math – and when I see the code used in CSS and php files I see math, strange formatting, AND a foreign language (another weakness). (side comment – I don’t expect any answers to this, but to me it’s really strange 1) that each line of code does not have a corresponding line number for locating test changes quickly and 2) the code is spread out all over the place instead of in a left-justified manner – the only way I’ve ever seen it done).

So I’ll look at my two existing software choices carefully and if they seem too tough for starting a page from “zero” I’ll hunt around for what I asked for from the beginning – an OSX drag-and-drop website creation system.

But I may keep WordPress in my “hip pocket” for one of my personal sites – they are far less complicated and WP seems much more appropriate (music sites – I have a dicussion page and a personal page both related to different musical instruments, styles etc.

Thanks again for your honesty. I REALLY needed that as I was thinking WP forum folks came in two categories – newbies and total fanatics. The preceding post was the reality check.

Now I need to figure out if MAMP screwed up anything on my system and/or if WP placed files all over the directory structure.

Thanks again – very much!

Great post – thanks.

I guess the most bothersome thing is (not in your case) that I’ve had private comments essentially telling me I’m incompetent or that I refuse to read instructions.

I’m neither. And I’ve read COUNTLESS pages – my of which I find are outdated or conflict with some other part of the Codex; and no matter WHAT anyone hs claimed, nowhere is it clear that you “install” WP on your host (but not until you change some critical files); the host may say “use any of these 2 or 3 folders but WP says to use another; and once it’s installed it does not run on YOUR computer…and if it did there are no instructions for uploading changes you’ve made (what files, where to put them etc.)./

But to answer your questions:

* What kind of web site are you trying to build? What is its purpose?

A product re information site for construction products and services.
The purpose is to promote our “selling functions on one handand our consultant work as a second “group.
* What type(s) of content will you have on the site? That is, if you were to write a table of contents for the finished web site on a piece of paper, what would be written on the paper?

I laid the entire thing out and explained it to BOTH people who recommended WP: The home page would have a short intro, custom header with logo, and two hierarchical menus – one with products (under the “product” heading”; one with services. Some item under products or services would have single, others multiple selections.

There would be a usual contactus link with a page noting our phone, fax,address…and one of the other pages would have links to products built not leaving the site.
* How frequently will the site need to be updated, once it is built?

Hopefully weekly – I wanted to have an ever-changing “question” or tip of the week with answer (that was one of the reasons for WP, even though I don’t think I’ve read a blog – ever!

* Will anyone other than you be responsible for updating the site, or adding new content?

NO

* Do you need user-created content on your site — for example, user-submitted reviews, comments, polls and surveys, etc.?

No

This is what I don’t get – I “see” a header that is the same on each page; a center content area with text/images pertaining to that subject; and exactly the same menu on every page for easy navigation.

But after doing some work on it locally I was told creating pages was wrong – I need “categories”my response was “then how to I find my pages to upload them” – with no response.

Then I created menus – but they not only didn’t show up, the pages were messed up and the previously-created list of pages)or menu, or whatever it is) 2)stayed below the bottom line of content (even with the “page menu” in the left sidebar, which no one ever solved – and none of the menu item linked to the pages I created.

So I killed all that, started from scratch, deleted everything and reinstalled to the host first (which make no sense still) – which gives me an under construction” page, but not my OTHER “under construction page with at least an email address and phone number(I kept that on my computer so I could upload it after installation)!

So customers who have been saturated with contact info get a picture of a cow pasture. Great for condtruction consultants.

I hope that anwers everything. I’ve explained this to 15-20 people.

Thanks – Jim

I don’t think there are issues with the host. For several reasons we went with iPage; they seem WP-friendly, just ran an entire blog series on how to install it and WP is specifically noted on their CP (cost was NOT a factor in our decision, btw. In our particular business “green” isn’t a color, it’s a marketing tag, and iPage has a strong “green” placement.That point, the WP-specific notes on their site and features we think are usable in the future were the reason. I also called them 3 times with misc questions and had 2 screen chats just to see if they were as good as rating show, and never waited more than a minute (plus got the right answers).

But back to specifics – if there is suppose to be an htaccess file somewhere it’s not obvious in the Codex (unless I just missed it in the thousand or so pages I waded through, with who knows how many more unread) and the file would be created as part of the WP installation.- right?

So if that’s the issue – is there some way to create it? Or is it just part of a row of dominos that will start falling if I do?

I guess what I’m getting at is this – do I delete absolutely everything from the host and my system (including MAMP) and start with a clean plate?

If so the question STILL remains of how/what is uploaded to the host *after* installation and at what point?

I’ve had so many answers to questions that fog that point that I am clueless; why do I install to a host AND run what I’m working on using MAMP with no way of knowing what goes FROM my computer to the host?

“See, we generally assume…”

I’m not being argumentative, and your posts are quite helpful, thanks. But I have to ask about the partial quote avbove:

Who is/are “we”?

And contrary (unfortunately) to your last post, when I finally nuked just about everything except one theme on my computer, re-downloaded (to ensure I had a fresh copy, and installed it on ipage, following both their and the WordPress docs – I got no welcome screen. No step-by step ANYTHING. There IS an install file buried in a directory, and not being one to click things at random I haven’t touched it – there are no instructions to do so.

Rhetorical question – wouldn’t an “install” file be placed somewhere more obvious like the root directory?

OK, now to real stuff – see the attached and there is NO mention of creating https://www.(mysite)/wp-admin/installer.phpThe is no htaccess file (unless it’s buried in a directory and I didn’t notice it – but from your post it appears it didn’t install correctly…if at all.

The ipage WordPress install routine simply stresses to find the “root” with a world icon and install everything but the scripts (which go into the cgi-bin directory) into that root; they make a point of saying it could be called root, public_html or htdocs. at the root, create a folder (or directory) of no specific name.

And nothing worked even though (as you suggested) that I follow the host’s step-by-step instructions and got a “successful install” notice when it was done.

Also, yes, I’m aware of how to use ftp software – Filezilla, ws_ftp (which I used almost daily in my Windows days) Cyberduck and bout 6-7 others. I always check files sizes after transfer to look for obvious errors as well.

And while I don’t code very well I can tweak html and clone pages, make changes, add/delete content etc.

I thin a big point, though, is the TYPE of software I was using – Dreamweaver, WebEasy Pro, NVU, Kompozer, iWeb and a few others; clone/modify or fix a page and upload it along with whatever graphics were required However I’ve never heard of a single one of the programs you mentioned.

My conclusion is that there are just two completely separate wolds, and nobody has ever bothered to try to tie them together (FWIW I know at least a dozen others – some before I tried this, some after I started, with similar issues – it’s not an isolated problem).

As far as the “we” reference, it was half in jest – but SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE is in charge – and there sure as heck IS marketing; there are trademarks and advertising, so it’s not the volunteer-enterprise everyone thinks it is.

While typing this reply I also discovered a note saying my wp-config on my computer needed to match the one on the site – and I had some problmes with the editor after the upload after the upload and changed it.

Bad idea. Now I can’t get into my site AT ALL. Anywhere.

So unless someone bothers to read this lengthy explanation and knows how to solve THAT issue as well, I’m dead. My only hoe is to fake something with iweb (lame, but I can do it quickly) and after (probably) getting dumped on in a presentation make a no-deadline decision to keep trying to find out how to make WordPress work or just get early use out of the fireplace…

Edited to add – opened wp-install in my browser and was sent to the dashboard. When I tried to view the ONE page I’d put together it went to the generic 2010 theme – which I didn’t activate.

I’m ever closer to tossing this mess off a pier.

Yes I read that – and yes, I talked to the host before doing anything. No need to be condescending. WP installation is NOT similar to other website creation software and that is not made clear by the marketing folks who push it as a good static-page system

I DO know how to move file to a web host – but I have read conflicting posts, Codex articles and off-WP site info that indicate it’s NOT a wholesale move, some editing may be required (without specifics) – sort of a rubik’s cube of “WE know how it works – but we’re not telling.

The very example you posted shows how tangled-up someone from a “static” background gets:

” * Will you install WordPress in the root directory, subdirectory, or you just want to make a test site to make sure you want to use it?
* Have you made a list of your site Categories? Understand that WordPress can only order Categories alphabetically by name or by ID (order entered through the Manage > Categories screen), so if the display order of your Categories is important to you, start making your list of Categories.
* Have you made a list of Pages you may want to add to your site, such as About, Contact, or Events? “

WP uses “categories” where others don’t – so how the heck would I know in advance what categories I’d use in software that’s new to me and “categories” is a unique definition?

Others have chided me for not understanding that you don’t create “pages” in WP and upload them as you would with other software – yet this section of the “Codex” wants you to perdict the future of an item that doesn’t exist.

“Items, events”??? I don’t know. They will come up at some point and need to be added. But starting out with creation of a sire, again there’s NO way to know!

This line: “Will you install WordPress in the root directory, subdirectory, or you just want to make a test site to make sure you want to use it?”

-besides having confusing syntax has no references to explain WHY one would be better than the other.

I have found NO..ZERO…ZILCH information (after probably 800-1000 searches clearly explaining the most basic facts:

1.”Install” means put it on the HOST server”

2.Installation of MAMP is to run it on you OWN machine.

3. The two are not related. You can’t get a page working on you machine, upload it and have it run immediately.

4. The marketing seems to go after the “quick website creation” programs now more than “blogs”. In fact, I only knew of it in passing as I don’t have time to spend reading blogs.

5. But the missing piece is how to glue the parts together. There is no (and again, I may have missed it – with thousands of new, old and incomplete Codex documents that is a possibility)step-by-step method showing you how to install on-line, build your site offline, and then take the offline “stuff” (they’re not pages, so I do not know what to call them) and upload them to where you pre-installed WordPress.

6. And the REAL puzzler to me – why does it have to be installed on the host’s server FIRST if your finished site material will replace it?

I’m not trying to rain on the parade, and I see great potential IF I can get it working. But I am not the only one who gut sucked it by the marketing fluff that does nothing to explain what might be a simple process. And again – if it IS a simple process, why isn’t it laid out in a a nice, orderly fashion somewhere?

Yes, I read those…and more. hundreds of Codex pages (many I didn’t know until I’d been at it a few days were outdated and for some reason no one removed them); a couple books (the first one BEFORE reading that there were TWO WordPress systems – $25 down the drain on WordPress.com instruction).

But thee is no clear: 1) To install and test the site on your own computer do this: “xxxx”; then 2) to move your modifier files to the site do this: “zzzzz”.

…and my biggest CURRENT problem is I have no clue how to accomplish #2 above. I’ve searched for hours in the Codex, on other sites – I swear it’s like some outside force ERASED all the infomation!

And although I know the installation was done the right way this time I’m STILL stuck.

I do believe the initial post of my thread might be helpful to newbies….but only ones with some kind of programming background.

Thanks – It’s fixed! Purely luck though – I didn’t understand the answer but as suggested I looked at the “menus” admin page. I remembered that function hadn’t made sense(still doesn’t); I had tried to set up two menus – they are still there although they don’t show up on any pages, and there was an extra menu titled”home”. I deleted it and the top one is now gone – yet the bottom one is still there and for some weird reason works.

That’s actually OK – but I still need to figure out what is meant by “menu” in WP jargon – I have categories listed to choose from but not one of my dozen or so pages shows up.

Thanks for helping me solve the problem though!

Took a while to figure that out, sorry!

(the link button above gave me unexpected results that would not let themselves be repaired, so I nuked it and just typed the URL in – sorry.I hope this works right.)

https://pastebin.com/qimUSWP6

FWIW I did a search of my HD as the file date is a week old; I thought it had to wrong, but it’s the only copy for that theme.

Thanks again –

Jim

More info –

The nested list position I may have described wrong –

It’s “sort of” at the bottom of the page.

I just discovered that it positions itself immediately below (and to the left – where the sidebar is positioned) of whatever I enter in the body. If I have 3 lines of text it’ll be lined up just below the last line.

If I have 200 lines of text it’ll be lined up just below the last line as well.

Does that help narrow down the reason for the problem?

Hmm – searched every part of the 2010 Weaver template I’m using (opening each in the editor and using the Firefox Edit/Find function, trying “next” and “previous” after clicking inside the code window) and came up with nothing.

Maybe I misunderstood – am I searching for *exactly* “<?php bloginfo(‘url’);?>” (without quotes) or something sort of like that but specific to my “site”?

Thanks –

Thanks – I’ll give it a shot!

Since there doesn’t seem to be a PM system here, this is a bit cryptic but necessary (for me): Sorry for…you know…Some scary personal stuff was happening & there was over-the-top tension overriding everything. Still no excuse – my bad.

esmi – Is there a way to provide a link to pages that haven’t been uploaded to my host? Nothing is actually uploaded yet because it’s not finished.

Only once did I ftp a non-working site to a host before, and it took weeks to get it straightened out for some reason.

Thanks –

My question had a little to much content, methinks…

Short version:

At the top and bottom left corner of my header image are identical active links marked “Home”.

They show up on ALL the pages I’ve created. I need to get rid of the top one – the bottom is fine (and if anyone with a solution can also explain how to create MORE links below the header image I’d really appreciate it)

I’m stalled on this and a problem noted in another thread – need to get this page up asap but have to solve these two issues first.

Thanks!

–exhuming this question–

Still haven’t found a solution-

Anyone have an idea or two?

Thanks